Well my citizenship appointment with the NYC consulate is 6 weeks away, and I'm starting to get very restless already. After reading and hearing about so many stories gone amuck with this whole process, I am having visions of not getting this approved for some reason.

My plan is to get a longterm visa in late August, then I have my citizenship meeting on Sept 1. After the meeting I plan on leaving for Italia, and hopefully within 6 months or so I'll receive my completed papers.

So far I have gathered every document I need to, as indicated by the consulate. There are a few mispellings in some of my grandfather's documents from Italia, does anyone know how to get this rectified?

Also I understand that I need apostilles for all American documents. Where and how do I do this? Must I go to an office in NYC where they do this? And as far as translations go, I was told by the consulate that they will do this for me at the NYC consulate. Is this free? Do I have to go to the consulate beforehand and have them do it, or do they translate the docs on the day of the appointment? Thanks!

For the apostilles, here is an old thread that explains what you need pretty well. I need to turn this into an article at some time (add it to my ever growing to do list) http://expattalk.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3210061972/m/744...440061972#7440061972

One question, you are applying for citizenship and a visa? If this is the case, you are better off coming to Italy as a tourist and applying in ITaly for citizenship and get a PdiS for awaiting citizenship. Getting a long stay visa is VERY difficult these days unless you have a lot of money. You should read our two articles on this on the main site as well as our article on citizenship. Also, the turn around time for citizenship is normally more than a year if not two so be prepared to wait.

Thanks Cristina, very much!

Do you know if US Embassies in Italy do notarization? Of COURSE my birth certificate is a copy, and so it seems from what I have just read that it must be notarized before I send it off to the U.S. for the apostille. Oy!! I am closest to Milano, so I would go there.

I love this site....it has been a great help, not to mention comfort, during this "paper chase"!!!

best,

Laurie

Thanks so much Cristina! Just to clear up any confusion I might have, do I apply for a PDIS here or in Italia as a traveler? Also where can I apply for citizenship in Italia once I get there? Is this process the same as it would be in NYC? Do I need the same documents? Where can I get a PDIS?

The PdiS you get from the questura in the town you will be living in. If you check the main site you will find articles on this http://www.expatsinitaly.com/arrival/staying_here.htm

As for the citizenship part, we have been discussing this in another thread. http://expattalk.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2620055123/m/7550085353 You may want to ask your questions there.

Thanks Cristina, ora tutto è chiaro! I was told that you needed a valid visa to obtain a PdiS once in Italia. Based on the reading and the links you sent me it seems that I don't need a visa to get the PdiS, in other words I can just go there as a tourist then apply for the PdiS, followed by the citizenship?

Matthew,

You can enter Italy as a tourist without applying for a visa beforehand. Technically, I believe you are automatically granted a Schengen visa, which is a 90-day tourist visa that's granted automatically for all the countries that signed the Schengen treaty. After that, I believe you would have to apply for a permesso for tourism, then convert it to one for "attesa di cittadinanza". My understanding is that you first have to have a valid permesso for ANOTHER motive before they will give you one for anticipation of citizenship. The good news is that, once you get that permesso, you can work and basically have all the rights of a citizen, except voting. And it's valid until the citizenship either is granted or your claim is denied.

The other thread discusses at more length the process of applying for citizenship while in Italy. The reason I didn't bring it up before is that it's something that no one on this forum has done, so it's unknown territory. I started the other thread and have done quite a bit of research, so I can talk about it in theory, but none of us can tell you the unexpected obstacles you are likely to face. Review that thread and make a post over there, and I'll try to give you as much information as I have.

The peril that I see in getting your citizenship that way is that you might not have everyhting that they wanted from the US, and then you would have to go back to the US to get the correct documents, or you may be denied your permesso and have to leave the country.

We can talk more at length about that particular subject on the other thread, if you like.

Laurie,

From what state does your Birth Certificate originate?

Is it a CERTIFIED copy (a.k.a. long form, i.e., the full certificate with raised seal or stamp) or just a "homemade" photocopy of the original?

I've read the other thread, but I'm not too sure what type of copy would need to be notarized. This may be particular to the state that the original poster's certificate came from.

Normally, you will only be able to use a CERTIFIED or long-form birth certificate (original or certified copy) for any official business, especially abroad. An unofficial photocopy of the original will not do.

At the risk of oversimplifying, the "certified" part of "certified copy" is the equivalent of a notarization. If you don't have a certified copy of your birth certificate, the best thing to do is probably to apply for one from the city or county in the US where you were born. You should be able to get a form from the city/county online (most these days have websites with that type of information on it), or, if a member of your immediate family still lives in the area, they could probably go in person and get a copy the same day, then mail it to you. Who specifically is allowed to get a certified copy varies by state; usually parents, children, siblings, guardians, and grandparents, in my experience.

Depending on the specific state, county or city, it will probably be issued by either the clerk of the county court, the city or county register of deeds, the city or county health department, the department of vital records, etc. If you're not sure, check your city or county's website, if one exists, or call your family members to see if they know which office issues copies of certificates in the area you were born.

Once you have this official copy, you need to have it apostilled by the State where it was issued. Various states have different procedures for this. In Wisconsin, where I am, I don't even have to give them the certificate. I simply fill out and mail in a one-page form stating the type of certificate, the name of the official that signed it, and the date that he or she signed it (the date it was issued). The office of the Secretary of State handles it.

The apostille basically says that the official who issued the certificate was, at the date the cert was issued, legally authorized to issue it.

Hopefully that will save you some angst and running around.

I just went through the citizenship process myself and found this website really helpful:

myitaliancitizenship.com

They explain the answers to a lot of your questions and list the offices need for apostilles and such for every state.

They also have a forum that you might find helpful because a lot of people ask similar questions.

All I have to say is don't get discouraged!! I was able to get my citizenship and passport in about 9 months and am leaving to move to Rome on Sunday!!

If you have any questions or need help, my email is jvs_03@hotmail.com

-jessica

MRIZZ822 - I just returned from the NY Consulate today, am I am happy to report that all the horror stories I have heard did not happen(for me at least). Everyone was courteous and I was approved. They said that there are about 1,000 people ahead of me so to wait 8 or 9 months to be contacted about coming in for a passport. (But if there was an emergency situation, they would help out if needed)

They translate only U.S. Birth, Death and Marriage certificates. Yes, it's free. You don't need to worry about it - they do it for the Comune in Italy after you submit your papers to them. For anything else, like a Divorce Decree or the "Certificate of Divorce Absolute" (meaning there have been no motions contesting the Divorce), you must have them translated, notarized and apostilled.

The whole process took about 45 minutes, but I was very well prepared, studying many message boards (like this one, thank you!)and asking questions. I had many supporting documents, just in case, some of which I did not need. For example, I read somewhere that you needed to submit the Marriage Application as well as the Marriage Certificate. NY just shrugged and said hey you've got the marriage certificate, who cares about the application?

Good luck to you.

Thanks Michael and Jessica (and congratulations Jessica on your citizenship and upcoming move!)

As it turned out, my BC was indeed a CERTIFIED copy, thank goodness. So I have sent it off Fed Ex to the Cal Secty of State Notary office for apostille, with return Fed Ex pre paid, so hopefully it will arrive soon! Then I will finally be ready to present all of my documents.


A couple of last questions for you experienced folks....the questionaire about specific dates of residence since the AGE OF 14 (!!!) I can come up with the addresses, but the dates of moving in and out I can only approximate....hope that is going to be ok. Since they don't ask for your social security number, I imagine that they can't actually track this in any case. Anyone have experience with this?

Also, do they take the original of your birth certificate permanently, or do you eventually get it back? It make me nervous to give it up...!

THANKS to you all,

Laurie

Thanks for the kind words Laurie!

As for the addresses, I wouldn't worry about it. My mom just approximated the dates and we were asked no questions about it at all. I think it's pretty much a formality. And yes, they take all the certificates, so you'll have to give them up. They get sent to the Comune to be registered there.

Good luck!

jess

Nicco: Can you e-mail me your case officer's name? I have an appointment later this year there, and with the positive eeeriece you had, I would like to ask for the same person. Paul in NY. eminence2@netzero.com

quote:

Originally posted by Nicco:
MRIZZ822 - I just returned from the NY Consulate today, am I am happy to report that all the horror stories I have heard did not happen(for me at least). Everyone was courteous and I was approved. They said that there are about 1,000 people ahead of me so to wait 8 or 9 months to be contacted about coming in for a passport. (But if there was an emergency situation, they would help out if needed)

They translate only U.S. Birth, Death and Marriage certificates. Yes, it's free. You don't need to worry about it - they do it for the Comune in Italy after you submit your papers to them. For anything else, like a Divorce Decree or the "Certificate of Divorce Absolute" (meaning there have been no motions contesting the Divorce), you must have them translated, notarized and apostilled.

The whole process took about 45 minutes, but I was very well prepared, studying many message boards (like this one, thank you!)and asking questions. I had many supporting documents, just in case, some of which I did not need. For example, I read somewhere that you needed to submit the Marriage Application as well as the Marriage Certificate. NY just shrugged and said hey you've got the marriage certificate, who cares about the application?

Good luck to you.

Laurie,
Was your certified BC also a "current" copy (they define that as issued within one year)? I just had to get three again (mine from Cal and my two kids' from Texas) because my copies were 2 years old and both states said they would not apostille them.

Nope! It's from 2001....but it's now in the hands of the gods and Fed Ex, winging its way to California. I guess I will just have to wait and see if they apostille it. There is not one single step in this entire process that has been simple....I am trying to be more zen and patient about it all...like my husband says, "tranquilla!"

thanks!

Laurie

Laurie,

Well, maybe there's hope. I was just on the Texas Secretary of State website and it says 3 years, but the person on the phone told me 1 year. I thought the person in Cal told me one year as well.

BTW, is your BC from the registrar or the county? In Texas the consulate says we have to get it from the registrar, but the LA consulate does not specify. When I contacted the Cal registrar they said I could get the long form from the county quicker and the SOS could provide the Apostille from that form. They also said it is probably the Texas SOS that requires the form from the registrar, so I assumed this is why the Houston Consulate mentioned getting the long form from the there. Now though I understand that the SOS doesn't care what the form is they're just verifying the person who signed it and I'm wondering if I just wasted $18 on a form my consulate won't accept. I've asked the consulate, but who knows when I'll hear back.

David,

My BC is from the registrar, and the date stamp is very hard to read, but I think it's from 2001. My situation is different from yours in that I am not dealing with a consulate. I am in Italy and so am submitting my piles of documents directly to the Citizenship office in the questura. And we know of course that EVERY consulate functions differently, as, from what I hear, every questura here, and apparently it also varies here from region to region. So far my experience in Piemonte has been rather different from a friend who did this in the Veneto. You may have wasted $18....on the other hand it may have saved you days of paper chase.... I'll post again here when I get my BC certified copy back from California, with or without apostille.

GOOD LUCK!!!

Laurie