As I understand it, Italian law specifies who you can leave property to when you die. Take as an example a family of four (2 adults [spouses], 2 children), if one of the adults died, the house would pass to the remaining spouse (1/2) and 1/4 to each of the children. If there is no spouse and no children then the property passes to the parents of the deceased, then siblings of the deceased, then aunts and uncles of the deceased etc. etc. (I'm kind of making this up as I go along, I know the details are not correct).

If you want your property to pass to someone else, is it possible/legal to get all of the relatives who would be entitled under the law to forego their entitlement?

[quote:a2a668b448="Beebee"], the house would pass to the remaining spouse (1/2) and 1/4 to each of the children.[/quote:a2a668b448]
Good question beebee! But we were told that the property would be divided like this; 1/2 to the spouse, then the children AND the spouse would divide the other half equally, giving the spouse an additional 1/6, and each child 1/6 each (1/2 divided by three). How's THAT for confusing?!? Does anyone know about that aspect?

[quote:ef5c4f21a8]we were told that the property would be divided like this; 1/2 to the spouse, then the children AND the spouse would divide the other half equally,[/quote:ef5c4f21a8]

You're very probably right. I was making a very sweeping generalisation. The thing is that we don't have children and all our extended family live in Canada - and they're not very likely to be interested in inheriting a piece of a house in the Italian countryside.

As we bought our house with a friend, we thought we'd just leave our share to our friend and he would likewise leave his share to us. That way the last survivor amongst us would inherit 100% of the property. (Then the only thing to worry about would be who can soap the stairs fast enough to trip the other ones up causing a nasty and fatal accident. :wink

But from what I can understand Italian law may prevent our little scam so I'm looking for a way round it.

Sorry beebee, I wasn't trying to nitpick, just pointing out how very COMPLICATED the whole situation is!

Our situation is complicated by the fact that Art has ONE child, but I have TWO. The three children won't end up with their equal thirds, as is our wish, once we're both gone, so we would like to find the solution to this problem also.

We were told that we COULD HAVE made certain specifications when we bought the house that would have solved this problem, but #1...it's too late for that, and #2...who knows if this is even correct?

I've read that one way to deal with it is to buy the house as a company because inheritancy laws don't apply to companies, but the disadvantage to that course of action is that companies have to pay higher yearly property taxes.

You can't do that, AFAIK. In most cases, when there are too many people inheriting a big thing like a house, it gets sold by the notaio handling the thing and the income is split amongst all the heirs. In your case, you may make an accord that includes your children and your friend. Basically, you may have a "prelazione" on buying the house, so would your friend. In case either of you dies, his or her share would be offerend right away to the survivors and the income of the sale would be split amongst all the heirs of the deceased. I am not sure how biiinding this accord would be, I guess it all lays in the honesty of the heirs because according to italian laws such private accords have no binding value, not even if subscribed in front of witnesses or in front of a notaio or lawyer (I am sure of this because we, I mean my colleages and me, signed one such a statement only to be robbed of what we thought it would grant us).

:guitar:
ANYONE HEARD OF THIS ONE........THIS IS TOTALLY UNCHECKED AND WE WERE GOING TO WAIT UNTIL WE START FULL PROCEEDINGS WITH OUR LAWYER BEFORE WE BRING IT UP 'COS WILLS COST EXTRA ....AND WE HAVE MADE A UK WILL ALREADY..................
ANYWAY, WE HEARD THAT WHEN YOU MAKE YOUR ITALIAN WILL ( WHICH WE WERE TOLD YOU HAVE TO IF YOU OWN PROPERTY/ARE RESIDENT) YOU CAN STIPULATE THAT YOUR UK (IN OUR CASE) WILL TAKES PRECEDENCE OR SOMETHING ALONG THESE LINES.

I KNOW SOUNDS TOOOOOOOO EASY, BUT WOULDN'T IT BE NICE...AS THE BEACH BOYS USED TO SAY...ANY THOUGHTS...PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SHOOT ME DOWN...ONLY PASSING ON STUFF I GET , WHICH I FREELY ADMIT COULD BE TOTALLY USELESS/WRONG

Please, caps! Writing all in capital letters is the same as screaing to the top og your lungs on the web.
And, no: in italy you don't have to make a will, no matter how much you own or what you own, because the law defines how to split the heritage. On the other hand, if you can do what you say, you probably have to write a will just to say that your original country's will has the precedence.

sorry if i upset you Alice....didin't realise i was in caps.

anyway your last remark is exactly what i have heard.

This sounds like a very complicated question that probably should be taken to a lawyer to get the right answer. Things get very complicated in terms of the matrimonial home.

Yes, it is true that your will, written in your country of citizenship, is considered the valid one, over italian law, unless you specifically opt out of it (which would never be a good idea). So you might want to will each other, in your home country, the remaining part of the home, between friends. TO ensure this, you can also sign an "agreement" in italy, which is not a contract, but if signed by both parties and backed up by a will, can hold some sway in italian court, from what i understand, as long as it is not contested by other parties. A good lawyer might help you even draft said agreement and explain it all to you.

Here is the part of the law (what is in italian is typed directly from the law, ... indicates my elipsis): art 46, 47, 48, 49 and 50 della legge 31 maggio 1995 n. 218 in materia di successione a causa di morte:

art 46: "la successione per causa di morte e' regolata dalla legge nazionale del soggetto deella cui eredita' si tratta, al momento della morte.... Nell'ipotesi di successione di un cittadino italiano, la scelta non pregiudica i diritti che la legge italiana attribuisce ai legittimari residenti in italia al momento della morte.....
art 48: il testamento e' valido quanto alla forma se e' considerato tale dalla legge dello Stato nel quale il testatore ha disposto... [this says that if it's valid where you're a citizen, that counts]

You should look up the codice civile, cuz art. 50 has a lot of "what ifs"

-Alexandra

:flower:
thanks Alexandra, you have really helped...it is something along those lines that i've read. i'll take it up with our Italian lawyer and see what we can do.

Thanks very much Alexandra!! This looks like the very thing we need.