Hello all!

This is quite a long post, but of course I really appreciate your time in reading as I really need help on this particular scenario.
Thank you!

I decided I needed to make this a new thread as my last thread about applying in Italy was too long to address this issue as well.

1) I am wondering if anyone here has had any experience in which their consulate did not require their relatives (i.e father, grandmother) to sign/notarize acknowledging their acceptance of dual citizenship as well.

I am aware that if the relatives are deceased then obviously a signed/notarized form is not required.

2) If the majority consesus here indicates that all consulates require a sign/notarized form from the living relatives then does anyone know which consulates require only the signed/notarized form from the relatives AS OPPOSSED TO the rediculous requirements of my consulate (Boston) and I think NY to have the relatives appear in person more than once!!?

The reason I am asking is because I've read elsewhere that a person applied in Chicago and did not have to have their relatives sign anything or appear for that matter.

Without getting all involved in my particular situation all over again, basically I've never known my father or grandmother. At birth he simply denied me as his son. When I was very young, the courts brought him in and proved that I am indeed his son. I've obviously never done anything to him and neither has my mother. If you knew my mother, you'd see she's the sweetest thing on earth. So, none of my calls, letters of such have been answered. It's almost next to impossible to contact him let alone get him to go physically into the Boston consulate.

If I have to move to another juristriction temporarily I will be more than glad to do so.

Building a live here in New England has simply not worked out for me. I feel out of place. When I have lived in other countries, I've instantly made friends and had 'a life'.
Living in Italy is very important to me and I will do whatever it takes.

Yes it does really erk me at times this whole uncooperative father thing determing the potential loss of such a close wonderful thing, but basically that's out of my control. Believe me, if I could pay a lawyer to get him to sign and appear I would do so. But obviously he has to comply on free will.

Therefore my only hope is to try to find a consulate where it's not required for the relatives to sign. I know most people replying to this may say for sure they are required to sign, but as I stated, I read somewhere the person applying in Chicago did not need such a thing.

Now IF, every single consulate most definitely requires the signed/notarized form for sure without question, then my next best bet would be try the signed/notarized thing at a better consulate. Meaning, Boston is completely out of the question (also to note, I read elsewhere another individual had the same problem in Boston of having to have the relatives appear in person...same with NY I believe).

So if Miami or Chicago are the better consulates (in other words, forget SF based on the reviews here.) and they both indeed require the signed /notarized form, then maybe I can reach another relative of my father's side and plead for their help to get in touch with my father and have him sign this darn paper (the very least he could do for all the absent years). I see this has highly difficult, but I am not ruling it out completely yet. Obviously I'd rather go another route, if one.

Now, onto avenue number whatever.
I will be going to Italy next year either way, taking a teaching english course as a back up plan. I figure if these consulates here are no hope for me, I can try the process in Italy.

I just got through spending all day reading all the great posts here and it is definitely possible to apply in Italy and seems a bit less,.... I don't know. Maybe the Boston consulate, the reviews of the SF consulate, etc. put a big damper on how I view the success here vs in Italy. For example, I read there is a law part of the whole EU that they are required to at least say yay or nay on the citizen app by the 6 mos. mark. That's better than what can be said for here in the states from what I've read.

Anyway, I'm thinking I may have to go this route, unless someone can indicate by their experience that they did not need to have their living relatives sign anything. But most likely when applying you might have just had them do so either way (making sure to have all your papers in order) and never really knew if it was truly required. But maybe there was a case or two where the applicant was unable to contact/find their relatives and their consulate still continued with the process.

If there is such a consulate, I'll temporarily move there as I stated.

If not, it's take my chances with Italy. I'll already be living there so why not.
The plus too is that upon your arrival and you present the papers to the commune for review, upon approval for submission, they'll issue you some sort of permit to stay for a citizenship application for as long as the process takes for you to either receive a no or you receive the pot of gold - in the latter you'll stay anyway.

So then, in that meantime as the backup, I'll be taking the teaching course and hoping to find a job.

I think it looks like a plan to me.

I just emailed a citizenship lawyer in Italy asking if they'll require the signed/notarized form from the living relatives as well.

Basically from some of the laws I've read on applying in Italy, I think that basically they just want you to prove your unbroken lineage (birth certs., marriage certs., death certs., cert of nat.). As we know, and as Italy is concerned, you are already an Italian citizen from birth/blood (providing you qualify of course), you just have to have Italy recognize it- file it. What they do as well is simply contact your consulate back home to make sure the living relatives have not lost their citizenship right, which mine did not - they'd have to go out of their way to specifically deny the citizenship).

I know the purpose of the consulates requiring the sign/notarized form from the living relatives in line is to make sure they do not object to they themselves receiving dual citizenship as well.
I think I read something in the same Italian law (or a poster here's interpretation of the law) that states that only the person applying in Italy will receive the citizenship and not the living relatives in the line back home. In other words, if I got it, my father and grandmother would not. They would have to have it acknowledged on their own. Different I know, but I think that's what I read.

Anyway, this post is getting too long. Sorry, I do that. Just get carried away.

So, any help, personal experience would greatly be appreciated as always.

Thank you!

Ciao!

Wow, long post. I haven't read your other thread to know your complete story, but from this post I gather that you're seeking citizenship through your paternal grandmother?

I don't know the answer to many of your questions (such as if there are any consulates that do not require any signed/notarized form from relatives), but the Detroit Consulate has said that only the primary applicant (that would be you) needs to appear in person. I am still gathering my documents, so I haven't yet tested this statement.

Best of luck in a difficult situation.

[ For example, I read there is a law part of the whole EU that they are required to at least say yay or nay on the citizen app by the 6 mos. mark. That's better than what can be said for here in the states from what I've read.

Anyway, I'm thinking I may have to go this route, unless someone can indicate by their experience that they did not need to have their living relatives sign anything. But most likely when applying you might have just had them do so either way (making sure to have all your papers in order) and never really knew if it was truly required.

If there is such a consulate, I'll temporarily move there as I stated.

Trinacria: hello, scotto here, I just noticed your post. I have been away for a spell and I wanted to comment on the US Consulates approach...it doesn't seem fair and with regards to european consulates, it IS TRUE that they must give a thumb "Up or Down" within six months, but all prerequisites are the same, just that they are more attentive and helpful with the process.

I just received mu perminent settlement visa for the UK in June of this year after 18 months of frustrating attempts to deal with the SF Consulate. My jurisdiction is now legally in the Londra Consulate and have been in contact with them...it is true that, because they are a member of the EU and they have treaties regarding this issue, I will be formally presenting my declaration of citizenship in October...I am a native New Englander and I am sorry things aren't working out in Boston, I have had informative correspondence with them in the past...will be there soon after I close up shop here in seattle....

Good luck,
scotto

Thanks to both of you for your replies.

I guess it boils down to this.
I am assuming unfortunately that all consulates are going to require at least a signed/notarized form from the living relatives in line.
To even get this from my father and grandmother really does seem impossible.
Put it this way, when weighed out on a scale, I feel I have more of a chance with applying in Italy than to get my father and grandmother to sign nevermind appear in person!
Can I be frank?
Not to mention, if anyone can relate, it takes a whole lot out of a child to go see a father they've never known and risk a door being slammed in your face - or just the shear awkwardness and uncomfortable feelings! To be quite deeply honest with all of you, I'd rather avoid that if I could. Human psychology does indeed show that sometimes we'd rather suffer without than put ourselves out on such a fragile emotional line setup up for a possibilty of a complete self shattering. I know, as bad as I want this....but still.

Anyway, I think that helps to clarify all my babbling up to now.

I did contact one citizenship attorney in Italy and very clearly more than once explained everything. They replied back stating that I would not need anything signed from my father or grandmother. I am assuming that it's a bit different when applying in Italy. Sort of like if I was applying for a citizenship different than 'jure sanguinis', like the 10 year rule or with marriage for example. In these two cases, obviously my father and grandmother wouldn't have citizenship recognized simply because I did in Italy. Maybe there's some sort of 'thing' where me applying in Italy 'jure sanguinis' means only I get the citizenship, not my father/grandmother therefore nothing is required from them (like in the States), I don't know.

Also, during the app process Italy faxes my local US consulate to make sure that my father and grandmother for example haven't lost their citizenship.

Like the whole roller coaster ride of being hopeful and then let down over and over by varying data, I'm hoping the above is true.
You find one piece of hopeful info, then someone points it wrong, then someone comes back with something else to prove it right again! RRR!

ALSO, let me emphasize that as impatient as I may appear, I am willing to wait however long it takes. It's not about the time. It's about the better route to apply for my particular scenario. And yes, about trying to avoid seeing my father if possible.

I'll be in Italy anyway, and planning to stay there hopefully, so why not apply there.

One more thing. I'm not sure if I should create a new post for this, but this one attorney's fee is ~$1000 US, IMHO not a bad price. Should I just hook up with him in Italy and pay that? I would think they have better connections/channels than I would. I mean they do it for a living and know WAY MORE than I how the process goes. I am wondering if I may have more of a chance that way.

Or maybe I should try to apply myself and if I run into obstacles like the commune not knowing what I'm talking about even after presenting circular 28 and other laws...THEN I should possibly pay a lawyer.
And to note, my Italian is pretty darn rusty. I may have a vocab of apprx. 100 words. Still learning though! So that may make my app process a bit difficult as well. Unless they speak english at the commune and such.
So, any thoughts?

And again, should I create a new thread on the lawyer thing?

Thanks again!!
And thanks again for all the long reading of my too long posts.

Ciao!

If you create a new thread about the lawyer issue, you might consider including the name of the lawyer you are considering using. I'm sure he won't mind having his name spread to more potential clients, and someone may have already dealt with him and be able to let you know what they think of his service.

If you don't make a new thread, would you mind just posting his name/info here? Or emailing me with it. I have some complicated issues with spelling of names, etc., and he may know how to make those go away more easily. I may consider using him too, if it comes to that!

Trinacria:

If the lawyer you are seeking is the one I posted, please know that I do not know him! I just found him with this info in English, there are many on the web with this info in Spanish, just do not think that I am encouraging to go with him because I honestly suggest you try to do it first yourself, and if unsuccessfull then hire the lawyer, it will be great that you hook up with some italian lessons and your teacher may be willing to help you with the comune/queture to show them first the circolare K.28 and then the sencond part from 2002 that says that you could use any type of visa to change it for citizenship. But again, it is up to you.

In Italy they do not require the signatures of your ascendants, and yes, they contact the consulates where your ascendans and you were born to see that neither of you lost the italian citizenship before the next line in the blood line was born.

Just remember that what you will require is that they transcribe all the births and deaths until you were born, you cannot be an italian citizen without making your father and grandmother a citizen, so forget about that part. You need to be in Italy with a Tourist permesso for 60 days in order to have your right to work and your PdiS per attesta di Cittadinanza stamped. In some places you need to go to the Labor MInistery to get a permit (if your employer doesn't believe that you can work). Nobody really knows the law much, so, again, if you cannot find an italian speaker to help you defend your rights then the lawyers seem like a good route, just ask them what are the renting charges in the comune where htey are located. Good luck.

Hi Michael! I hear ya.
Well, a happy medium ground...
See this thread.
http://expattalk.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2620055123/m/2000030753/r/2000030753#2000030753

I am not sure if the lawyer is too busy though.

Hi Fiona!
I hear you as well. Yes, chances are I'll be making the attempts myself. And I'm sure I'll meet someone who can help out a bit with the speaking and such and won't mind being rewarded with a nice dinner or whatever.

Ok, you mention this:

quote:

In Italy they do not require the signatures of your ascendants,

That is EXACTLY the hope I am looking for!! How did you hear about this? If possible, are you able to point me towards any references? Having something in writing helps (like the major help of that circular and the art 11c I think it is). But of course, if it was just through hearsay, I can't really present that. But I take your word for it obviously, either way.
Thanks.

And fine, if my ascendants receive citizenship, well, I don't really mind. I'm sure they won't either, that's even if they're notified. I just thought that if they receive it, like they do when applying here in the states, wouldn't you think Italy would require them to pre-accept it in case they don't want it? Sshhh, I don't want to say that too loud if currently Italy does not require them to sign anything.

Well, got to head to do some errands.

Thanks again!
Ciao!

I would suggest that if you decided already which lawyer would represent you in case
you are experiencing legal or language problems that you make sure first in which
comune that lawyer was planning to present your citizenship requirement, then go
and rent in that comune some place to stay, and if you fail then you hire the lawyer
without having to move and find again a place to stay.

One comune which posts information is this one http://www.comune.molinella.bo.it/vivere/stranieri/soggiorno.aspx (but I am sure
there are many more).

You need to present the circolare K.28 but when they start telling you that you do not reside there and that you need a residency type
permit of soggiorno, then you show them :


http://www.giustizia.it/cassazione/leggi/dpr394_99.html#Art.%209

INDICE del d.P.R. n. 394/1999

"...Art. 11 ( nota )

Rilascio del permesso di soggiorno
Il permesso di soggiorno è rilasciato, quando ne ricorrono i presupposti, per i motivi e la durata indicati nel visto d'ingresso o dal testo unico, ovvero per uno dei seguenti altri motivi:
per richiesta di asilo, per la durata della procedura occorrente, e per asilo;


per emigrazione in un altro Paese, per la durata delle procedure occorrenti;


per acquisto della cittadinanza o dello stato di apolide, a favore dello straniero già in possesso, del permesso di soggiorno per altri motivi, per la durata del procedimento di concessione o di riconoscimento..."
About the other question they won't inform your father and grandmother that they are italian citizens at all.

--

I am posting you links where you can read about the law,

K.28 http://www.anusca.it/Flash/Circolare_28.htm (this is the most important thing to consider)

http://www.anusca-online.com/quesiti/quesito.asp?idq=1183 (Anusca tells comunes what to do, and this is a case like yours)

http://www.uruguayosenitalia.org/foro/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=827

http://e-migrados.net/foros/viewtopic.php?topic=2633&forum=19&start=30

Great help! You're a gem, I love you!

Right, just because I may be going to Rome, doesn't mean I have one commune. I'm sure there are several commune's for Rome, I don't know. So I need to look into where I would be staying. Most likely will be where the school sets me up. I don't know if I'd be able to find a room to rent soon enough and I don't want to stay in a hostel. I'd rather just take advantage of where the school places you.
They indicate the flats are located on the outskirts of Rome in Cesano. So I have to find which commune serves that area I guess. But that arrangement is only for the month then the class is over. I don't know if they'll allow me to remain there (I'll pay of course, and that's if I want to stay there, may hate it). Maybe by then I might be able to find a room to rent elsewhere, but like you said, to be careful of bouncing around.

If there was one commune for Rome that would be great, but I can't see that.

I just noticed the lawyer I contacted is in Bologna.
But no big deal, I think with all this armament now (with so much of your help with these law references and such), I may be able to do this on my own.

But still as a back up, I need to now find some decent citizenship lawyers in Rome, as it stands now, one(s) that serve the commune for Cesano.

I got another reply stating that I do not need to have my father or grandmother sign anything while I am applying in Italy!! See, this is what I mean, for my situation, to apply in the US seems almost impossible to me because they all want a signed form from the living ascendants, but I have a better chance in Italy.

This is wonderful!!! Just what I needed! I don't want to get too excited though, you know how that goes.

Ok, so for now, my next big steps are getting the apostilles and translations for ALL my documents.

1) I will search this forum for where to go for getting translations done, but if anyone wants to answer quickly here, that'll be great in case I have trouble finding some references.

2) My state office that does the Apostilles indicated that I would have to have an out of state marriage certificate apostilled with them. I guess they do all the docs, but what about the birth certificates from Italy (or any docs from Italy)? Doesn't it seem strange that they would apostille them (if they do) as they don't even originate from the U.S.? But it's been mentioned to me to have ALL docs apostilled and translated for applying in Italy - this is why I am asking what ALL means. Does this exclude the docs from Italy? Why translate a doc that's already in Italian? That doesn't make sense. Or apostilled a doc not from the US.


Ok, thanks yet again for the great help!

Ciao!

Trinacria - you're right. You don't need any docs from Italy apostilled or translated... Only those originating elsewhere.

Oh ok, very well - that makes sense. Thank you patg!
I'm just double, triple and quadruple checking things because once in Italy I really don't want to (and most likely won't be able to) return to the U.S. for one darn document.

Still looking where to translate.
I think myitaliancitizenship offers translation services but there has to be other places. I thought I read also that your consulate might do translations, but I'm not sure that would make sense for me if I am not even applying through them. They might be like, 'why aren't you applying here? What gives?' I'm not exactly going to mention to them that I am trying to avoid them due to the reason that I can't get my father and grandmother to sign let alone come in and that I am going to apply in Italy. They may gladly mention even if false, that Italy requires the same. Just hearing it might discourage me even if it's false. I'm on course now, I don't want to be knocked off by something like that.
Anyway!

Fiona, please don't shoot me but my language skills don't seem to be anywhere near as good as yours!!, so could you somehow find the sentence or two in the link(s) where it might state that I do not require having a signature/notarized form from my living ascendants? As you know, anything I can present to Italy in case they might not know certain laws (like the circular and article) are a blessing backup tool.

You've been a great help already, so I don't want to pester. If you have time.
Gee, I really wish I could take all of you out for dinner for all the help! Heck even a cyberdinner! LOL!

Whatever!

Thanks again.

Trincria - I think I may have missed some of what you've been writing about. But what makes you think that Boston would require your father and grandmother to appear and sign something? Did you ask the Boston consulate? I applied through Philly and of course they knew that my mom and grandfather were deceased (death certs presented) but I really don't think they would have asked anything from them if they had been alive. I also applied for my kids and even though they were there with me, they didn't even bother to ask to see any of them. Of course we all know that all the consulates require different things. But before I even went to the consulate, I spoke with the consuls before going and reiterated all the docs I needed and never once did they mention that I would need anything from my grandfather or mother (at that time I didn't mention to them that they were both deceased). Technically you are an Italian citizen and you are having it recognized. So anything your dad and grandmother would say should have no bearing on you, right? I may have missed something in your previous posts?

trinacria,

I don't speak Spanish, only Italian, (and English, duh) so I can't tell you what the Spanish-language stories of acquisition of citizenship say.

However, in the two links in Italian, the official advice to the Comuni and the text of the circolare, there is no mention of one's relatives either needing to acknowledge their citizenship, or not needing to acknowledge. In fact, there is no mention of this on most consulates' websites either, so far as I can tell, either. However, you know that it's a requirement of the Boston consulate, so obviously it's something that can be required but is not always made public. (I don't see it mentioned on their website either, but I may be missing it).

The Chicago consulate, which you mentioned as a possibility earlier, states:

IF YOUR ITALIAN CITIZENSHIP IS RECOGNIZED, YOU MUST REALIZE THAT YOU ACQUIRE RIGHTS AS WELL AS RESPONSIBILITIES IN TERMS OF THE ITALIAN CONSTITUTION AND REGULATIONS. ONE OF THESE RESPONSIBILITIES IS TO REGISTER YOURSELF AT THE ITALIAN CONSULAR OFFICE THAT HAS JURISDICTION OVER THE PLACE YOU RESIDE. PLEASE NOTE THAT , NOT ONLY YOU BUT ALSO ALL YOUR ASCENDANTS AS WELL AS YOUR DESCENDANTS ARE RECOGNIZED AS ITALIAN CITIZENS WITH THE ABOVE MENTIONED RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES.

PLEASE NOTE: YOUR DESCENDANTS , SINCE THEY WILL HOLD DUAL CITIZENSHIP, UNITED STATES AND ITALIAN, MAY DECIDE TO RENOUNCE THEIR ITALIAN CITIZENSHIP.

RENUNCIATIONS OF ITALIAN CITIZENSHIP IS ACCOMPLISHED BY:: APPOINTMENT, IN PERSON TO THE ITALIAN CONSULATE WITH A SWORN DECLARATION SIGNED BY TWO WITNESSES, BEFORE THE CONSUL GENERAL OF ITALY OF THEIR TERRITORIAL JURISDICTION.

They don't say that your ascendants or descendants need to sign anything acknowledging said citizenship.

So, you might want to check with the specific comune in Italy that you plan on going to before you set up shop there under the wrong impression. I get the feeling this may be another subjective thing, i.e., individual comuni or officials may decide whether to require it or not.

In any case, I'm pretty sure that your father and grandmother WILL get citizenship. However, unless they go to Italy, that really won't mean much of anything to them. The only way I can see that being a problem is if they try to enter Italy on their American passports, and even then, I doubt any flags would be raised.

As far as your question about the comuni: Roma is the largest comune in Italy, both by land area and population. Cesano is on the outskirts, but is indeed a part of the comune di Roma, as far as I can tell. See this link:

http://www.comune.roma.it/was/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_21L?menuPage=/Comune_Agenzie_e_Aziende/Municipi/

That is a website for the Comune di Roma. It lists all its various (20) Municipi (town halls) and the quartieri (neighborhoods/areas/quarters) that each serves. Look ALL the way down to number 20, and you will see Cesano.

As I understand it, the comune di Roma has been continuously expanding since unification as the city has grown, in order to keep all of the city under one administrative unit. I could be wrong about that though.

So, I hope that helps. As you find more information, please keep posting, and keep asking questions if you need help! I, personally, am glad to be of any assistance I can. I'm interested in knowing these things too!

darn it! this happens to me when I am typing a reply, someone else replies. So the post below is directed to patg.

Michael, I'll reply after this.

Right, makes sense, but the last time I was in Boston, the gentleman not only told me that I would need my living father and grandmother to sign and notarize but also to appear in person, not once, but more than once!
I just felt like by his attitude for some reason he was just trying to discourage me. When he mentioned that signing was not good enough and that they need to come in I replied (even though a bit defeated inside) "ok, so I need them to come in?" He must have seen my non-defeated expression and then added "yes, but not once. They'll have to come in and then have to come back a time or two more and may have to go to another location." What on earth was that all about?!!
Well whatever, I'm not going to dwell on it.

Patg, interesting your experience, I guess it's hard to know that if your ascendants were living if your consulate would have at least required them to sign, like most consulates.

Sure, why not, once I have all my docs, I can take a trip into the consulate once more and at least try and see if he'll take it without my living father and grandmother's signatures. But I HIGHLY doubt it!! I'll still try though.

Trinacria:

The consulates abroad say and do what they want, no matter which consulate they always require more things than in Italy.

About translations if you are planning to translate them in the US please follow this link http://expattalk.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3210061972/m/2100046253 but if you are going to Italy and you have enough time nothing like translating them over there, but again it is not necessary. You know, some comunes become picky with the foreign translators and they require that the consulate provides an attestato consolare, though they do not have any right but few times it happened, but if your translator is from Italy NO PROBLEMS.

Your relatives again will not be informed, nobody will inform the USA that they acquired the italian citizenship, so why renounce if nobody will link the american passports with the possibility of obtaining an Italian one even if they arrive as tourists in Italy?

About the comune again be picky, make sure that where you will live they are friendly for citizenship so that it won't take forever and nothing like having a friend ready to call you when police comes to verify that you live there and within 24 hours you go with the paper they leave in that house verifying that you live there, that way you could rent anywhere since they do not accept hostels as proof of residency, a rent in your name is needed, or a letter from an owner/renter saying that you live with him/her.

You need to apostille ALL DOCUMENTS FROM US, but the ones in Italy are for Italy they do not need apostille or translations of course.

------------

I am adding how to authenticate the translators signature at the Boston consulate (this is what you should do to be bullet proof safe in case you translate the documents here before going to Italy)

http://www.italianconsulateboston.org/english/notarile.html (last parragraph)
"... The translated documents can then be authenticated by this office for a fee. ..."

Thank you Fiona.
I was just nervous that Italy would hammer me with the same varying roller coaster, 'require this, don't require this' type thing like in all the varying consulates of the States.
It makes sense what you say about the consulates being rediculous.
But, I wanted to be prepared with some sort of writing while applying in Italy if they said to me after I excitedly show up with the 20lb stack of papers that they need a signed form from my father and grandmother.

Most likely such writing does not exist mostly because it's not required in the first place so why bother listing something they DON'T require?!! Like listing that they DON'T require that you feed your dog before you show up for the application submittal!!

So I gather in those links, it does not necessarily say, 'no living ascendant signatures are required' but moreso a general scenario like mine and yet they were still able to proceed.

I'm not sure I'd want to overwhelm myself with trying to get the translations while in Italy albeit they would obviously be more accepted. If I can find a good one here, I'd rather get them out of the way.
Thanks for the link by the way.

1) I'm wondering if the apostilles have to be translated as well?!!

ALSO to correct what an email from my apostille office mistakenly told me, I DO need to have the out of state docs apostilled in their origin state. In other words, a Connecticut doc needs to be apostilled in CT. As per info on the myitaliancitizenship FAQ page.

Uhhh, all this varying, roller coaster, info.

About the rent thing, so I see that if I stay at the place setup by the school, I'd have to have whomever owns the place write a letter saying that I pay rent to them.

All the places I've been to around the world, I've had no problems making friends. It's just my nature, so I'm anticipating receiving some help along the way while in Italy. I always give a nice token of my appreciation back to the helpful people. I never live selfishly and just take take take.

Michael, I understand what you are saying. The consulates should only require the living ascendants only if they want to refuse receiving the dual citizenship, but for example, the general form provided here, on form 3, it's a signing acknowledging the living ascendants reception.
http://www.myitaliancitizenship.com/downloads/AppforCit.PDF

Funny too, when I tried to present this application to the man at the consulate (because they don't have one to download), he rudely replied, "I don't want to see that."

See?! It's like this guy has some sort of vendetta...

I don't know. I just don't feel comfortable going back in there. It's like he's a judge and I am trying to convince him I'm not the murderer!! What on earth?!!

But again, because of my fightful spirit, I WILL still try one more time before I go to Italy.

Thanks again guys.
Off to mow the lawn.

Ciao!

trinacria,

I'm sure I'm goofing up the timing of our posts again, but this is just a quick note:

I'm a bit confused when you say, above:

quote:

2) My state office that does the Apostilles indicated that I would have to have an out of state marriage certificate apostilled with them. I guess they do all the docs...

Are you under the impression that YOUR state office will Apostille ALL documents from anywhere in the US? Does "with them" mean with that specific office in your state? Or do you mean with the appropriate out-of-state office?

I'm currently in the process of compiling an article for the main Expats in Italy site about obtaining apostilles. Be aware - Apostille 101 - that the apostille for a document can ONLY originate from the state where the document was issued. So, if you are in Mass. but have documents from other states, the Mass. Secretary of State cannot apostille those other documents.

Documents MUST and can ONLY be authenticated (i.e., apostilled) by the Secretary of State (or equivalent competent authority) in the state where the document was issued.

The idea of the Apostille is to get a certification from the State that a particular official (or notary) is legitimate and competent to sign the certificate that they signed. The official gets his or her commission from the specific state that he or she operates in, so an official in another state would have no knowledge of the offcial, nor any authority to verify that said official is legitimate.

Just a heads up so you don't go barking up the wrong tree, so to speak

PS, in reply to your subsequent post above, Apostilles do NOT need to be translated. As I understand it, they use some kind of numbered-fields system that allows them to be understood even if the person receiving it does not speak the language it is issued in.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by trinacria:

Patg, interesting your experience, I guess it's hard to know that if your ascendants were living if your consulate would have at least required them to sign, like most consulates.

Is this true? Most consulates require living ascendants to sign? Has anyone had any experience with this? It really doesn't make
sense why living ascendants have to sign. Sign to say what? That they give you 'permission' to become an Italian citizen through them? You have the 'right' through blood to be one whether they are living or not! Doesn't make sense but then again anything dealing with consulates doesn't have to make sense.
Anyways, I would try again once you have all your docs. Go to the Boston consulate and maybe the guy you spoke with before won't even be there that day! Play the 'dumb' routine. Be very pleasant and smile and if they give you the same garbage say very politely you weren't aware of them needing your father's/grandmother's signature/appearance since it wasn't posted on their website.
Have you tried calling instead of appearing in person (since that guy may recognize you) and ask the same question about what you need, letting them know that your father/grandmother are still living? Well, whatever you decide to do....good luck and keep us posted.

I'm updating this since we seem to be posting about the same time....
Trinacria - you mentioned an Italian citizenship application above in your post which you got from myitaliancitizenship website...
I doubt if any consulate uses that one. I'd be pretty certain that if a consulate uses an actual form they would use their own. I just had to sign a form in several places after the consul filled in the obvious info names/birthdates etc. It didn't look anything like the one posted on myitaliancitizenship website. Sometimes these websites are helpful and sometimes not. You just need to listen to the consulate and take everything you read/hear not as 'the bible'....including me!