My partner and I have travelled extensively in Italy and love the north particularly.

We are a gay couple and have been together for years. We hope in the near future to move to Italy permanently from the United States.

I have encountered some negativity toward gay people in Italy but it seems about the same as the States only less-discussed.

Can anyone tell me what I can expect if we do choose to live in rural Tuscany or Umbria. We keep a very low profile and do not impose ourselves on anyone yet would not want to hide the nature of our relationship.

Does anyone have any experience that could help us before we decide to make the big move?

It is difficult to just say 'go for it' - but I have at least two gay (male) friend couples who, like you, don't flaunt their relationship. Both of these couples do not have any problems, (one couple in Umbria, the other in Tuscany). They are all of them nice friendly open people who do not even feel the need to 'hide' stuff. Being honest seems to work, so go with your own heart, and try it out.

I can't kid you that there isn't an element of homophobia in the Italian psyche: but being an interesting and amusing and amenable incomer is going to earn you loads of points, and outweigh any doubts about 'why hasn't he got a woman'!

Good luck!

Hi, I was in Italy for the Gay Pride parade in Rome 2007, fun and colorful. There are loads of gays in Italy !!!
I wouldnt worry, ive met heaps of Gays in Italy.. Like everywhere in the world you are going to get the straight, the biggots and the open minded folk..
I see no problem, so enjoy your Italy
P,S Im not gay.

I am from the SF/Bay Area, so of course my experience is quite different from most people- I see Italy as far more homophobic and calling people "gay" as an insult is far more accepted. I am hyper-sensitive to the issue, as the daughter of two moms (my moms are gay, yes). With that said, stick to big cities, apparently Turin is the city of Italy's gay pride/gay movement. I agree with others that say you will find homophobia everywhere. I have spent time in S. Italy (Sicily) and I found few people that were as open-minded as the more Northern populations. I think about my moms coming to visit and I want them to be comfortable, so this issue is certainly on my mind. The fact that you would probably have to hide your sexuality for employment or renting reasons may be an issue that I would consider seriously. This is just my experience, I don't want to discourage anyone from moving to Italy because of their homosexuality, but a certain reality does exist!

To say that Italy is homophobic is an understatement. Lately, the situation for gay people in Italy is far from what is considered a western democracy. Italians don’t seem to have a problem with gay people as long as they don’t ask for rights! One just has to look at the Family Day demonstration that was organized last year to see the deep-rooted homophobia that exists. It was there that Berlusconi said that marriage must only be between a man and a woman. The disgusting hypocrisy of this event is that shortly after Fini left his wife for his pregnant lover – all this, after having just preached about family values. However, back to life for gays in Italy. Please keep in mind that in Italy YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS WHATSOEVER. Recently, homophobia was not included in a law regarding hate crimes, if your partner is sick you can, if they want to be difficult, be refused entry into visit her/him in a hospital, the government just passed another law recently where companies are now protected from having to prove that they fired someone because of their sexual orientation, the so-called minister for Equal Opportunities recently said that the upcoming Gay Pride celebrations won’t have the government support/protection, and the list goes on unfortunately. A gay teenager was attacked recently in Rome and there were many voices that said he got what he deserved. I personally don’t think that lying low about your relationship (gay or straight) is the way to live, but that is only my opinion. I personally believe, if you have the choice, as a minority it is much better to live in a country that welcomes you and not one that fundamentally believes that what you are is sinful and should be lived in the shadows. No one should have to live as a second class citizen, but unfortunately, that’s is how life is in Italy for gay people at the moment. Before anyone jumps on my case and says I’m being negative and starts singing the praises of Italy, ask yourself, how would you like to live in a country where you have no rights? Can you really blame the large number of Italian gays who are moving to Spain …

My gay Italian friends, and they are numerous, have never complained about how difficult it is to be gay in Italy. Goodness knows they never hesitated to beef about everything else that got on their nerves, so I don't think it was shyness or fear that kept them quiet.

As far as certain legal aspects, it's difficult for most non-immediate family members to get info on a hospitalised relative (I mean in-laws here) in most countries.

Yes, the Catholic Church has some pretty homophobic things to say, but are they really listened to? How about their positions on abortion and birth control--it doesn't seem to me Italians pay much attention.

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As far as certain legal aspects, it's difficult for most non-immediate family members to get info on a hospitalised relative (I mean in-laws here) in most countries.

I would add, if you followed any of some of the previous threads on non-traditional family rights (I expressed my concern in fact for my situation with my partner and son) Italy seems to not grant these types of family rights for anyone outside the nuclear family. I guess the advise I would give to the OP: probably don't move to a small town and see how things go- i.e.: whether you feel happy and comfortable- not too different than what most newcomers do! (I think...). All the best, and keep us updated

The day-to-day life is not difficult for gay people in Italy, but that does not take away from the fact that you have no rights. Most countries recognize couples that live together (gay or straight) and will allow one partner to visit the other in hospital. Italy does not permit this and if the hospital staff want to be difficult, they can keep you out. I find this completely unacceptable. People must be treated equally, this is the point I am making, and Italy is at the bottom of the list when it comes to the treatment from a legal point of view of gay people. One usually doesn’t think about these things until it’s too late, and then you wake up and realize that the law does not protect you. I guess the day-to-day life for women when they couldn't vote was not unbearable, but nevertheless, it was unacceptable that women were denied the right to vote for so long.

You might want to have a look at http://www.arcigay.it/ - they'll have more info on rights etc., and on a social level, for when you get here, friends of mine have found the local groups to be a really good way of making friends.
Good luck
PS for what it's worth I live in the countryside and can't imagine that you'd have any problems in a place like this - but I think it really comes down to luck in small places

I live in a relatively rural part of southern Tuscany and have three gay couples as friends in my very large Italian social circle, including the local vet and her partner. The other two couples are two Italian men and two expat men. They are invited to everything the rest of the crowd (married, single, young, old) does and they invite everyone to their functions. That's the extent of my info for you, so welcome and best of luck.

I think Italy is definitely lagging behind a lot of Europe in this but perhaps small towns are worse. I used to have a gay friend who regularly met gay men who were not "out" in fact, quite a few of them were married (I don't know if this is normal or not tbh but I would be surprised to find young men doing this in the UK - but I could be out of touch!)

Jenna, you've just reminded me why I must get down to Torino one of these weekends!

Legally and politically the situation isn't brilliant, but socially I haven't seen too much evidence of problems. They occur, as in many places, but not at a much higher level. Perhaps youngsters have more of a problem coming out here. I still haven't quite fathomed everybody out as to who is and who isn't in my football team, but as they are all too young I'm not too bothered.:-) I have made one or two wrong assumptions down a local bar, but a nice crowd and cause for a laugh and not offense. As I'm single, friendly and mix and talk with everyone I'm not sure what people think of me, but I've had no problems.

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Jenna, you've just reminded me why I must get down to Torino one of these weekends!

Be sure to come down to Torino sometime after I arrive so we can organize a GTG! I guess it is different moving to Italy with a partner vs. being single since you are probably more likely to be able to more easily and comfortably navigate the gay singles scene in a bigger city. I also find the friends of friends who are homophobic to not be mean or anything towards gay people, but their underlying beliefs are still there. Still, its a horrible feeling to be judged because you are gay or have to hide your sexuality because of this fear.

Small town in Italy and being a gay couple doesn't mix very well, you will most likely have a hard time being open about it in public. Italians are still by majority catholic and conservative on this issue, though a small town in Italy is more likely to be more tolerant than a small town in the US.
I say it's a good idea to try it for three to six months and see how it works for you.

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Originally posted by jenna:
All the best, and keep us updated

What a divesity of response. Thanks jenna and everyone.

When we were in Venice last year two thuggish types (later learned they were from Napoli and had no place to stay in the north of Italy) followed us and seemed to pick up on the gay piece since we had met up with a British gay couple and had had dinner at Avogaria (great restaurant) in Venice.

So........ we'd had quite a bit to drink and realized very shortly that these two Neapolitans were "on" to our sexual orientation. When I heard the word "finnochio" I turned and said someting TRULY derogatory to them in Italian.. then added "non vogliamo vedere i tuoi cazzi ripulsivi"

I apologize for being so crass on this site.

But the police had to be called since they went balistic.. We waited in a store front while I explained what had transpired to the Venetian police officer and once he knew more about them he took them away.

The insecurity we felt afterwards was palpable but I had (still do) hope that the countryside is less extreme in its rebuke.

When we were in Venice we took the time to visit two gay bars in Padova where there was standing room only... it was fine but it isn't really our scene. I realize the official Italian policy is that there are no Italian gay people. And I realize too that the present pope is doing ZILCH to improve our lot.

Thanks all. You have no idea how helpful all of your insights have been.

I've found that Bologna reminds me very much of the City (San Francisco) in regards to the gay community. For sure what I hear about legal rights in Italy, it is a bit behind globally (but not at the bottom of the list... remember Jamaica folks...) but in Bologna I have seen a thriving and proud gay presence. If in the area you can check out Il Cassero (a prominent organization/venue)...

Thanks Justin.

Very helpful. I haven't been to Bologna for a long while. It makes sense what you tell me since it's a University city.

Barnaba, the problem unfortunately remains the same. If you live in the country, while the day-to-day life may be alright, should anything happen like what happened to you in Venice (or worse), you are not protected by the law. Homophobia is not covered by the hate crime law as in most other European countries. Just as I would advise people to think twice about living in Italy without a work permit, I think that you should also be aware of your precarious legal situation in Italy.

One of the reasons I love living around Siena is that I feel at home here since in some ways it reminds me of San Francisco (my hometown, worked in the CXastro for years, was part of the 80's gay scene, etc.). I probably know over 100 gay, lesbian and transgendered people if not more and while there will always be homophobia unfortunately, it does not cause a problem here.

I live in Venice and quite honestly I have never seen anything that would have me think that there are problems here (but then I am not gay and maybe I am just oblivious to it...I originally lived in NYC with many gay friends and it was no big deal there)...remember the 2 people you were talking about here were not Venetian...

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Be sure to come down to Torino sometime after I arrive so we can organize a GTG! I guess it is different moving to Italy with a partner vs. being single since you are probably more likely to be able to more easily and comfortably navigate the gay singles scene in a bigger city.

Well, I certainly must visit as I'm embarassed I haven't yet. Be nice to meet your mums too when they visit.:-) I'm not a bigger city or a scene person which is why I find that side of life a bit difficult!

As to the OP's original post: we seem to have given a diversity (yah!) of answers. Loads of different perceptions and experiences, I suppose. On the daily living side I'm not sure why. It could be visibility perhaps: I'm single with a low profile but then I think of a couple of trans women I know, or a couple of very out guys and they don't appear to have any problems. Boh, life's too short to worry about things that might happen. Take reasonable care, like you would if you were going skiing or putting to sea or driving in Napoli, but apart from that just get on with it!

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Originally posted by Damien:
should anything happen like what happened to you in Venice (or worse), you are not protected by the law.

I agree with Sue.
Barnaba, while I wouldn't deny that Italy in many ways IS omophobic (even if I'm positive some other Countries are, only more hypocritically/politically correct, but this is MY opinion and MY perception) YOU ARE protected by the law, from pickpocketing, to attempted murder.
Ma che scherziamo?

Chia

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YOU ARE protected by the law, from pickpocketing, to attempted murder.
Ma che scherziamo?

Agreed. My Italian friends reacted in the same way- family rights/couples rights maybe not protected, but violent crimes... come on, lets not paint each police officer in Italy to be an agent of hate!
Anyway, Italy needs more out of the closet gay people, otherwise how will people ever understand how surrounded the really are! The bigots are getting what they want if gay people hide or stay out/get out of Italy, power in numbers, I say.

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Homophobia is not covered by the hate crime law as in most other European countries. Just as I would advise people to think twice about living in Italy without a work permit, I think that you should also be aware of your precarious legal situation in Italy.

Damien thanks. I'