Originally posted by Ramona: -lack of anti-Americanism compared to other European countries and Australia
This one is interesting. I have a couple of American friends who are paranoid about being disliked just because they are American. I find this bewildering, as IME few Italians are able to distinguish the accents in any case, let alone care!
DFM - you can tell your paranoid American friends that I've done some scientific testing and have found Italians to be, almost completely, non anti-American. Funnily enough, I get a lot more ignorant anti-Americanism when I go to the Netherlands to visit my boyfriend's relos (they're not anti-American but I've encountered Dutch people who are.) And I get tons of bigoted anti-Americanism in Australia, unfortunately.
My testing is very scientific. I'm both Australian and American (grew up in both places, dual national, have weird hybrid accent in English.) When Italians ask me where I'm from, around half the time I say "Australia" and the other half I say "Stati Uniti." Of course, when I speak Italian, no one can hear what kind of English accent I have! Anyway, from my observations, at least here in Rome, no one gives a fig whether I am American or Australian. If I say "America" they often have relatives there but that's about it.
Originally posted by Ramona: DFM - you can tell your paranoid American friends that I've done some scientific testing and have found Italians to be, almost completely, non anti-American.
Well, both have been here longer than me, and I've told them both it's imagined.
I also found a lot of Australians to have a chip on their shoulder, not just about Americans, but often Europeans too. It's been said that Aussies look at Yanks like Kiwis look at Aussies!
Of course when someone assumes I'm American, I say "Americano? Tu sei Albanese?". So far it's always gotten a laugh, but it's bound to get me in hot water eventually!
Originally posted by Deep Freud Moors: I also found a lot of Australians to have a chip on their shoulder, not just about Americans, but often Europeans too.
Yeah, that's definitely one of the more negative aspects of Australian culture. I've actually had Australians say things like "I don't like Americans" to my face when they asked re my accent and I told them I'd grown up partly in the US. And often it's the same Aussies who would be asolutely horrified if someone said "I don't like Asians" or "I don't like Aborigines". Anyway, in that situation, I just tell them they're bigots and slope off.
Come to think of it, I've had some stupid comments from Italians re "American food" being bad (little do they know!)- but I figure that's pretty much what they think of any non-Italian food so sux to them - they're missing out.
Originally posted by Deep Freud Moors: I have a couple of American friends who are paranoid about being disliked just because they are American. I find this bewildering, as IME few Italians are able to distinguish the accents in any case, let alone care!
Yes, around here anyone who speaks English tends to get called "English". You're right about the accents....most Itailians don't know the difference between American English, British English, Australian English etc. Of course I'm no good at detecting a southern Italy vs. nothern Italian accents...or any other variations!
As for being discriminated against because we're American....definitely NOT! Most Italians we meet seem to love everthing/everyone American...altho they don't love the current administration at all. Luckily for us they're smart enough to realize that just because we're American doesn't mean we support the shrub.
Originally posted by Ramona: Yeah, that's definitely one of the more negative aspects of Australian culture. I've actually had Australians say things like "I don't like Americans" to my face when they asked re my accent and I told them I'd grown up partly in the US. And often it's the same Aussies who would be asolutely horrified if someone said "I don't like Asians" or "I don't like Aborigines". Anyway, in that situation, I just tell them they're bigots and slope off.
I guess that's one of the things I love about Italy: People are happy!
Originally posted by Deep Freud Moors: I have no problem recognising southern accents, coz I simply can't understand them!
I'm the opposite. I have no probs with southern accents but find northern Italian accents impossible to understand. They just don't speak proper up there!
Barb (and ARt) - my theory is that Italians intuitively understand that you can't blame everyone from a particular nation for their idiotic rulers as they had Berlusconi for so long!
This summer when I was walking around with my Italian bf, several Italians overheard us speaking English and commented on how we were both American. I found it hilarious because he has an extremely strong Italian accent and probably wouldn't even be considered completely fluent in English.
On the flip side, my bf tries to point out the different Italian accents to me, but I still can't tell the difference usually.
Posts: 6 | Location (City & State): San Diego, CA | Registered: 11 July 2007
By Ramona:....."I'm the opposite. I have no probs with southern accents but find northern Italian accents impossible to understand. They just don't speak proper up there!
Bloomin' cheek ...... what do you mean "They just don't speak proper up there!" ?'
'Course we do! - Se ghin, ghin - e se ghin nos - ciao. E se ti minga capi - ti fu capi mi!!!
The more I learn about Italian accents and dialects the more I think that NOBODY speaks proper Italian!! The northerners say the southerns only speak dialect, the southerners take the piss outa the northerners accents. In the 'home' of modern Italian they cant even pronouce C properly... Possibly one of the things I love the most about here is the total lack of homogeny!
One of the reasons I love living in Italy is that I feel that every time I leave the house it's an ADVENTURE. Something unexpected and pleasant always happens, whether it's something historic/beautiful that I haven't noticed before, or a delightful encounter with another person. I LOVE IT HERE!
Originally posted by chiver: The more I learn about Italian accents and dialects the more I think that NOBODY speaks proper Italian!! The northerners say the southerns only speak dialect, the southerners take the piss outa the northerners accents. In the 'home' of modern Italian they cant even pronouce C properly... Possibly one of the things I love the most about here is the total lack of homogeny!
Italian is the language spoken in Italy. Beside that, every region and within the region every province and even within the province every city or town have a different dialect due to the fact that before the Latin everybody spoke a different language, that was later mixed with Latin and also the language of the people that in history we see (those that study some) went in and out the peninsula, like arabs, spanish, french, etc. You can find only some old fellas that live in the middle of nowhere that don't speak proper Italian, because they couldn't go to school at their time, but now that is not the case.
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Please, everyone: let's stick to forum rules. Avoid insults and personal attacks. We are here to discuss things, and the fact that Italy is a deeply dialectal country is patent tpo anyone speaking the language. Dialects do not detract from our culture, individually and as a nation, rather they enrich it and are part of the diversity that is often admired by travelers and foreigners as well as Italians. beign able to speak a dialect is not a symptom of ingorance, insulting people, though, is a symptom of bad manners: something we try to avoid here. Move your personal remarks on individual to private messages or even better, mail, or we, the moderators, will be forced to close a thread that ha proved, so far, interesting and rich.
Originally posted by Alice Twain: Please, everyone: let's stick to forum rules. Avoid insults and personal attacks. We are here to discuss things, and the fact that Italy is a deeply dialectal country is patent tpo anyone speaking the language. Dialects do not detract from our culture, individually and as a nation, rather they enrich it and are part of the diversity that is often admired by travelers and foreigners as well as Italians. beign able to speak a dialect is not a symptom of ingorance, insulting people, though, is a symptom of bad manners: something we try to avoid here. Move your personal remarks on individual to private messages or even better, mail, or we, the moderators, will be forced to close a thread that ha proved, so far, interesting and rich.
What is interesting and rich about: "I'm the opposite. I have no probs with southern accents but find northern Italian accents impossible to understand. They just don't speak proper up there!" or "..... what do you mean "They just don't speak proper up there!" ?'
'Course we do! - Se ghin, ghin - e se ghin nos - ciao. E se ti minga capi - ti fu capi mi!!!
Now what's so difficult about THAT?" or "The more I learn about Italian accents and dialects the more I think that NOBODY speaks proper Italian!! The northerners say the southerns only speak dialect, the southerners take the piss outa the northerners accents. In the 'home' of modern Italian they cant even pronouce C properly... Possibly one of the things I love the most about here is the total lack of homogeny!"
People are always quick to pre-judge someone by their accent or dialect. Coming from the North of England and moving to the South, plus having had a southern accent for the first 12 years of my life I have been a victim of this prejuidice both ways! Unfortunately it happens.
Here, having an English accent and speaking mainly English has been interesting since my daughter started school. People have been attracted to me because I am English, either because they are or speak it and I have gained some lovely new friends through this. Something I love is the way people are so helpful in helping you to speak Italian, very few get impatient and actually seem to enjoy helping me to get the pronunciation of a word correct. Can this be counted as a valid contribution to the original spirit of the thread? I hope so.
Originally posted by alyson: People are always quick to pre-judge someone by their accent or dialect. Coming from the North of England and moving to the South, plus having had a southern accent for the first 12 years of my life I have been a victim of this prejuidice both ways! Unfortunately it happens.
Here, having an English accent and speaking mainly English has been interesting since my daughter started school. People have been attracted to me because I am English, either because they are or speak it and I have gained some lovely new friends through this. Something I love is the way people are so helpful in helping you to speak Italian, very few get impatient and actually seem to enjoy helping me to get the pronunciation of a word correct. Can this be counted as a valid contribution to the original spirit of the thread? I hope so.
What is to pre-judge for the accent anyway? The accent of a person is part of his/her cultural baggage, so the dialects of a place, things to appreciated, willing to know and be proud of. The comments made by close minded people just show how they can't learn. If Italy was an appendix of your own Country you wouldn't like to go there as much as you do because it wouldn't be the Italy you see now.
I love the relationship my boyfriend has with his friends. They have known each other all their lives and they are so sweet to one another. They are all extremely open and express their feelings so freely without fearing they will appear "gay."
I like that a night together usually is a big long dinner, rather than just drinking and going to the bars (as in typical in the US).
I, too, love that prosecco isn't just for special celebrations!
I love the food, I can't get enough!
I like that during the summer, everyone is out and about. I have never seen so many old people in my life!
I like that the big town celebrations are for everyone from babies to grandparents.....in the US it seems that parties are just for those 35 and under.
I like the way people really seem to enjoy life.
I love that my boyfriend is the most amazing cook ever!
Posts: 6 | Location (City & State): San Diego, CA | Registered: 11 July 2007
Why does it feel like the temperature dropped by about ten degrees two or three comments ago? I think I may have missed some parts of this discussion, my feeling on the whole thing is I love accents, dialects and little linguistic oddities-they make life so much more interesting. I say this regarding Italy, Spain, France (countries that I have had some experience of) and definately Ireland where we have a mad mix of accents-maybe not dialects but certainly interesting ways of interpreting the English language! To me, beig able to speak Italian well means also being able to understand a little (or more...) of the vast range of dialects and accents. People who live in hilly areas tend to have accents that rise and fall regularly-phonology mimicking topography? Its something I have seen a few times and has been echoed by others. I think thats pretty interesting....
Originally posted by Barb (and Art): Yes, around here anyone who speaks English tends to get called "English". You're right about the accents....most Itailians don't know the difference between American English, British English, Australian English etc.
I've had a few students who complained about previous teachers being American and unclear, but I think that's an individual thing. By and large though I think students just get used to a particular voice, which is why I occasionally use different UK accents and a dodgy US or Aussie accent.
Posts: 713 | Location (City & State): Valle d'Aosta | Registered: 24 November 2005
Originally posted by chiver: People who live in hilly areas tend to have accents that rise and fall regularly-phonology mimicking topography? Its something I have seen a few times and has been echoed by others. I think thats pretty interesting....
I actually think you have something there. A local Italian friend was telling me about moving 15 k up the valley and getting completely confused about what someone was talking about - a local festival as it turns out. It wasn't 'the convulsions of a chicken' but the festival for 'the conversion of St Paul'!
Some years ago I was on a skiing holiday from the UK at Madonna di Campiglio. I got talking to an old local guy in a bar who'd lived in Norwich for years, and UK readers might imagine the English accent he had [got a loight boi'] - I was just sorry I had no UK tea with me! We were discussing accents and he made exactly your point, that down the road in (ISTR) Pinzolo they spoke completely differently. When he spoke to his friends in the bar I really struggled to understand.
Posts: 713 | Location (City & State): Valle d'Aosta | Registered: 24 November 2005
There is a woman in our contrada who is English. You would think that when we are together I would speak English with her but she is so hard to understand with her accent (I can't remember where she is from) that we just speak in Italian.
Cristina
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Expats in Italy Forum 
If I say "America" they often have relatives there but that's about it.
Anyway, in that situation, I just tell them they're bigots and slope off. 
