I dont' know about the US but in the UK we have legislation to protect the consumer, does this even exist in Italy?
I've bought so many things recently (baby stuff) that have broken within a few weeks and my in laws tell me not to even bother taking them back to the shop. I bought a samsung phone which broke and they refused to fix it and then there was my horrific electricity bill, this would not be allowed to happen in the UK.
What kind of protection is there here when things go wrong? Is it just me or does everyone feel that there is much less focus on the rights of the individual?
Sorry I woke up a bit cross this Sunday morning!

You have to have the receipt. Take the object and the receipt back to the place you bought it and tell them to get it repaired. Since I have been here the law changed from minimum 1 year to minimum 2 year warranty. I'm sure it doesn't cover everything, but so far it's covered everything I have needed it for.

You're so right Yael....though I am convinced that there is legislation to cover 'consumer rights' and as is 'the norm' here - everyone ignores them....
I'm also certain that local comunes, consumer bodies, companies, manufacturers and 'Uncle Tom Cobley and All' keep such legislation 'under wraps' and out of the public spotlight.

It was very similar here when I had all the problems with the 'barking dogs' - I found out there were laws to stop this, but the local enforcemnet officer (Police in this case) had always 'turned a blind eye' until I started shouting my mouth off about how I would pursue the matter through the appropriate channels! All of a sudden - problem solved - but literally 'overnight'!
I wonder what EU laws there are concerning Consumer Rights? And if we find any, what we can do about it?
Another point of total indifference by the 'Italian In The Street' is the use of the law they do have, for self protection or simply for assistance... an example which infuriated me was when I heard someone in my nieces apartment when I was resting and young nephew (22) was asleep... I went to see who it was, and it was a gypsy woman - clearly drugged up to the eyeballs - opening drawers in my nieces bedroom.....(youngest nephew had gone out and not bothered to lock the door). I grabbed her by the arm (stupid or what?) - shouting for my nepehew to wake up. I wanted to lock her in the bathroom (no exit) and call the police. He would have none of it, and threw her out! He then phoned his father and told him about it. I complained to the Dad and was told (very nicely) that as I wasn't hurt, then it just wasn't worth the all the trouble it would cause if I were to call the law!!!!!!

I'm sure they DO have many more rules/laws than we 'know about' - but they often just can't be bothered to do anything about it - either as consumer OR supplier!

<--I know - I'm getting off now....
Carole B.

quote:

Originally posted by Judith in Umbria:
You have to have the receipt. Take the object and the receipt back to the place you bought it and tell them to get it repaired. Since I have been here the law changed from minimum 1 year to minimum 2 year warranty. I'm sure it doesn't cover everything, but so far it's covered everything I have needed it for.

My boyfriend bought a fax machine from a big electronics chain and it did not work at all. We took it back with the receipt 2 weeks later and they said that "there is no warranty" and refused to exchange it or fix it. This law may exist in theory but in practice no one follows it (or almost no one) including the big chains. So what are we, as the little guys, meant to do about this? All i could think of was to stand outside the store where we bought the fax machine handing out leaflets or something about their poor customer service...what else can one do if they refuse to follow the law? I refuse to file a causa over a 100 € fax machine.

HI rtpm,
With your fax machine - surely the guarantee describes what level of cover the machine has...
These guarantees usually stipulate the 'return to supplier' requirement (sorry, I'm sure I don't need to tell you this. If that is the case and it is stipulated in the guarantee, then the supplier should honour it upon production of the purchase receipt - and if they don't then a stiff letter to the manufacturer with a promise that if nothing is done then 'suitable authorities' WILL be advised.

Carole B.

Which chain was it? And which brand of fax machine? Just so I avoid them both....

You have two chouces when something doesn't work. YOu can either take it to the local assitenza with your receipt and they will fix it for you (all products bought now have a 2 year gauantee) or if it does not work since day one, raise a stink at the store, call the guardia di finanza and if all else fails (which it shouldn't) tell them that as your credit card is a foreign one, you will stop payment and they will have to foot the bill to pay for the inchiesta! This worked once for me.

If the store is screwing you around, make them pay for it by bad advertising.

Carole, what happened to you is one of my biggest complaints. I have no rights in my own home. If someone breaks in I cannot hold them against their will. This makes no sense. There is a law that should be approved soon which will allow self protection. Keep your fingers crossed!

Yael, what was the problem with the electric bill? If it was the fact that they did a reading after a long time of no readings and you got hit for the difference, unfortunately you have no recourse as it states very clearly on the bill that it is just an estimate and you should call in with the correct figures before a certain date (stipulated on the bill) before the next estimate. Unfortunately, those of us not from here do not know this until too late.

As much as I hate them, Euronics has honored the warranty on what I have bought there. My espresso machine actually ran out of warranty during the 4 repairs it underwent, and I pointed out that we started on it before it ran out and they covered it. I'd no idea anyone else didn't honor it. I'd make such a scene!
I've spent at least €6000 at Euronics in 5.25 years. That's a lot of yelling.
I'll remember the Guardia di Finanze. That's a good clue.

Yes Cristina that pretty much sums it up.
But the fact they didn't read the meter for 2 years is ridiculous and bare in my mind that I'm not alone here, my boyf is Italian and even he didn't notice the bit about the bill being estimated. In the UK I've never heard of a meter not being read for two years, it just wouldn't happen.

On the consumer rights thing, I'm sure these warranties exist but it's getting them honoured that's the problem. The Samsung girl just refused point blank to help even though my phone was within the year limit. I don't think taking things back or complaining is part of the culture here in the same way as it is in the UK.
In any case in a lot of shops I find the customer service apalling when I'm buying something never mind trying to return goods.

getting off now

Yael - count yourself lucky, the boyfriend and I recently got an electric bill for more than 800€. I agree with you that it shows appalling lack of respect for the customer to not read the meter for 2 years. When I lived in NY the guy used to come and read the meter every month - why can't they do that here?

I agree with Yael - the law may exist but consumer rights are not part of the culture here. For example, I tried to take a pair of pants back to a shop with the receipt as i decided that it didn't really go with the top I had - and they would not take it back. My Italian friends tell me that you can't even take clothes back if they are faulty. This, combined with the fact that shops are only allowed to have sales at specific times (thereby hurting the consumer, shopkeepers and the economy at one fell swoop!) and can only open at certain times (here in Rome they must declare their opening hours to the government and if they open at other hours they can be fined) leaves the consumer with few rights and a lot of inconvenience.

I'm going back to NY in September for a wedding and am looking forward to being back in shopping paradise. I'm going to stock up!

The reason they read your meter every month is because they want to be paid. You got an 800 Euro interest free loan for two years. They didn't charge you interest did they?

Aren't you supposed to check the meter every so often and make sure it's close to the estimate?

BTW I found the NY shopping comment kind of funny. NY shops are kind of infamous

If a product stops working you are supposed to take it to the local assistenza. You should check with the shop that you bought it from to see who handles the assistenza for that product. They HAVE TO take care of the product if you have owned it for less than 2 years (unless it was broken by misuse). If the shop sells you something that never works then you can scream and then call the guardia di finanza.

About gas, electric, water, etc. This unfortunately is a fact of life here. It is up to us to read the meters and pretty much says so on the bill. This si why it is so very important to read the bills when you get them to double check EVERYTHING.

quote:

BTW I found the NY shopping comment kind of funny. NY shops are kind of infamous

You obviously have not yet been introduced to the pure joy which are the shoe sections at Century 21 or Anbar shoes!

quote:

Originally posted by Nick:
The reason they read your meter every month is because they want to be paid. You got an 800 Euro interest free loan for two years. They didn't charge you interest did they?

Yes nice in theory, but when you have to repay that loan, that you didn't even realise you'd taken out, in 30 days, without notice it kinda sucks.

Anyway my last rant on this but just to say...
... I used to leave my flipping lights on to deter burglers when I was out, cooked cakes and stews in my electric oven and generally used lots and lots of electricity. Since my bills were always around €50 (the actual costs of a normal bill in the UK) I was surprised to discover 2 years later that electricity is 3 times more expensive here and I'd being using more than my fair share.
And another thing our gas meter is read every couple of months and is on our balcony so we see the guy doing it, since our electricity meter is downstairs, I just assumed (A.s.s (as in donkey) u & me) that the same thing was happening with that. In the end they didn't even come to read the meter, they came to change it to a new style one, so who knows how long we could have gone without having an accurate bill.

Suffice to say in this house now cakes are a rare treat, lights are only on if you are in that room and nobody is allowed to use the washing machine without checking with me first!

quite clearly not allowed in my house

quote:

Originally posted by Yael:

Suffice to say in this house now cakes are a rare treat, lights are only on if you are in that room and nobody is allowed to use the washing machine without checking with me first!

That's why I insisted on a gas oven, though it was hard to find a "built-in" type, and my plumber installed it with the warning that it isn't installed according to norms because he can't find a law that applies to this kind of model!

It may or may not be totally safe. We have an opening in the counter that used to contain an electric griddle (the previous owners took out all the appliances when they left, so we had to either find pieces to fit or rip out the whole kitchen and start again). We had a removable wooden cutting board made for that hole, so when we're using the oven we open that up to vent the extra heat to ensure nothing melts back behind it.

Anyway... we bake a lot, so at least that saves on electricity.

OMG Yael those doughnuts look delicious. You can come make them at my place anytime.

quote:

Originally posted by rtpm:

quote:

BTW I found the NY shopping comment kind of funny. NY shops are kind of infamous

You obviously have not yet been introduced to the pure joy which are the shoe sections at Century 21 or Anbar shoes!

No-) But got to listen to a lady whine about New York shops last week. They charged her extra for the standard manual. The one they'd taken out of the box before hand.

quote:

Originally posted by Yael:
....On the consumer rights thing, I'm sure these warranties exist but it's getting them honoured that's the problem. The Samsung girl just refused point blank to help even though my phone was within the year limit. I don't think taking things back or complaining is part of the culture here in the same way as it is in the UK.
In any case in a lot of shops I find the customer service apalling when I'm buying something never mind trying to return goods.

getting off now

...This is a long 'Link' (sorry Cristina)

These are the consumer rights in Italy, under EU legislation. I'm printing off the two pages in English and in Italian and I'm going to keep them ready for the time I need to wave them under some 'snotty nosed, stuck up sales person' who dares to try and deny me my lawful rights. Yael, the consumer rights here are practically the same as in the UK - the only difference is the indifference of the sellers and many of the Italian buyers....
Here's the link - take you ages to read it, but worth while I think if you ever need it.

LINK

Carole B.

Edit: Gave a title to the link to stop the forum from expanding. /A

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Annika,

Yael IIRC the Enel website has an online section to update your meter reading. This time they under estimated. Odds are the next two years they'll over estimate.

If you have the new meter they should not have to come out and read it any longer as it is all automatic.

Also, if you ever get a bill that is too high to pay, call the company and request that the payment be broken up into a few payments over a few months. They are normally okay with doing this.

quote:

Originally posted by Nick:
Yael IIRC the Enel website has an online section to update your meter reading. This time they under estimated. Odds are the next two years they'll over estimate.

This happened with our gas bill while we were away in the states. They charged us for our normal usage every 2 months for a year. It was domiciliato so we stored a huge excess balance. This year they are paying our bills from the balance.

We underuse gas and electricity, I am home alone most days and only make big meals once a day. So far this has been a great thing since it seems like we will have a credit when we move out. But...the downside is when do I think they will give us the credit? Probably when I am back in the U.S. Ha Ha.

I have had bad experieces with customer service but have found many shops that I now do like and before I buy anything, I ask about refunds, returns etc... For Valentines Day I bought my husband and few shirts and ties and asked the lady what I should do if he does not like them for if there is a problem with the size. She said without hesitation, don't launder them and they can be exchanged but not refunded. Not bad. Also it helps to strike up a relationship with those who you frequent, then they have an investment to be nice.

I also think that the cashiers in some places do not know how to use the register. They can't return and item, void and item, etc... For goodness sake a teller at my bank did not even know how to do a wire money tranfer. Geez.

The warranties are "generally" taken care of.
I had things (including my IPOD) changed because it wasn't working right. My cell phone is off for fixing under warranty, even if it broke out 6 months after I bought it.
In general this is taken very seriously.
BUT
You have to have the origina receipt.
If you don't do not bother even asking.

Refunds are not done in Italy UNLESS, the thing you have bought are broken from the beginning OR the owner is extreeeemely nice, as this is not even allowed by law, due to the fiscal rules.
We do exchanges very easily, as adviced above, just ask at the moment of the purchase.

About clothing.
IF the shirt/gown/pants are obviously wore and have no tag, the shop can refuse to exchange them, as the have been used. If you change soomething because you do not like it, change it ASAP. This is particularly true with shoes.
The point is that IF you wear them, who is going to buy it?