"Ethnocentrism is the tendency to look at the world primarily from the perspective of one's own culture. Ethnocentrism often entails the belief that one's own race or ethnic group is the most important and/or that some or all aspects of its culture are superior to those of other groups. Within this ideology, individuals will judge other groups in relation to their own particular ethnic group or culture, especially with concern to language, behaviour, customs, and religion. These ethnic distinctions and sub-divisions serve to define each ethnicity's unique cultural identity."

What do you think, is it all racism? Or is much of what has been talked about,excluding pure tactics of trying to get one race out of the country and other similar actions, a result of the intermixing of various cultures in a globalist world.

Take look at Wikipedia on the subject, it might help create a better understanding of the issues. I'm not trying to justify Lega Nord, I think the discussion has gone beyond their activities.

One could certainly try to argue the point but I hold that "ethnocentricity" and racism are the same thing. The former is just the modern "PC" word, trying to lessen the emotional impact of the word racism. In the end I wouldn't let the issue be reduced to semantics as is often the ploy. Call it whatever the hell you like... it all comes down to intolerance and I personally find it a disappointing, medieval, and ugly attribute. Call me crazy.

quote:

In the end I wouldn't let the issue be reduced to semantics as is often the ploy

This should be chiseled in stone at the top of the forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Carole B.:
[QUOTE]

With a brain that size - how did she ever pass The Bar and become an attorney!

Statements and a mentality of that kind just
beggars belief

intelligence and intellect are two different worlds.

Mmmm I think this discussion has lost the thread of my original intention (ie is Italy racist, institutionally racist not individually). It is quite clear when reading the newspaper that when a Romanian or Rom commits a crime that "la legge NON è uguale per tutti". The anger felt by the families of the 4 victims killed by a drunk Rom are quite justified however the media frenzy attached to this was unbelievable, this made me laugh in a country where people kill other people on the road every weekend (often under the influence of drugs and drink) why were these other endless cases not give such attention and why didn't the Irish start an anti-Italian campaign when an italian mowed down two tourists in Rome? Why is Anna Maria Franzoni given the benefit of the doubt (although she's been found guilty time over) and the Romanian girl who killed a girl on the metro in rome swiftly given a long jail sentence? If you were to watch TG4 with Emilio Fede you might think that it was unsafe for women to walk the streets of Milan without being raped by some straniero. The statistics are rather different however, and Italy is one of the safest countries in the EU for levels of violent crime but you wouldn't know it if you were in Italy. Italians who can't read English have no external source whereby they can see what's going on so maybe their fear is justified if Emilio Fede, Canale 4 e 5 and what the politicians tell them is their only source of information. When I was in Florence a few years ago I knew a Carabiniere, I quote his words:

"io non sono razzista ma non supporto i musulmani e gli slavi" well lets hope anyone arrested by him in the last few years got a fair hearing!

Of course racism is also rife in the police in the UK so its not an anti Italian thing that I am talking about. Rather it seems unacceptable to criticise anything here without being seen as communist or be told to return to your own country. can you believe Di Pietro has been branded a neo fascist yesterday, the man is only telling the truth. Believe it or not I pay taxes and are contributing to the Italian economy so if I don't like something which is unacceptable and uncivilised then its right to complain about it and as whats happening at the moment is uncivilised and undemocratic, why are more people not complaining what are they afraid of. I think indifference is the worst thing, at least the facists have the courage to admit what they are, its the indifference of the masses that allows them to get into power though.

quote:

Originally posted by Kat67:
[quote] Believe it or not I pay taxes and are contributing to the Italian economy so if I don't like something which is unacceptable and uncivilised then its right to complain about it and as whats happening at the moment is uncivilised and undemocratic, why are more people not complaining what are they afraid of. I think indifference is the worst thing, at least the facists have the courage to admit what they are, its the indifference of the masses that allows them to get into power though.

Brava Kat! I can't fathom the indifference people show to the problem either. It's as though people don't want to face reality.

BTW, I apologize for my quote about Tiso's case leading the thread off topic. Everyone latched onto the lead-in paragraph about the Cambridge person and ignored the actual meat of the story.

quote:

Here's more commentary on the Italian court ruling on Tosi's case:
"A Cambridge-educated attorney seated next to me on a recent flight lamented seeing Pakistanis and Africans throughout Europe. Of course, “it’s not racism,” she insisted, “but as a European you just like to see European people in European cities.”

"Italy’s highest appeals court gave legal force to my seatmate’s dubious logic, authorizing discrimination against Roma people, known as gypsies, on the grounds that “all the gypsies are thieves.” Even Roberts, Scalia and Thomas would likely recoil from such a racist ruling.

"One of those exonerated in the case was the head of the anti-immigrant Northern League, since elected mayor of Verona. It’s as if David Duke had won an election as Louisiana’s governor instead of being soundly defeated.

"Violating civil liberties to a degree not even contemplated by the Patriot Act, Prime Minster Silvio Berlusconi’s government announced it was fingerprinting all Roma citizens in Italy — and only Romas."

quote:

"Ethnocentrism is the tendency to look at the world primarily from the perspective of one's own culture. Ethnocentrism often entails the belief that one's own race or ethnic group is the most important and/or that some or all aspects of its culture are superior to those of other groups. Within this ideology, individuals will judge other groups in relation to their own particular ethnic group or culture, especially with concern to language, behaviour, customs, and religion. These ethnic distinctions and sub-divisions serve to define each ethnicity's unique cultural identity."

Manifest destiny?

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If you were to watch TG4 with Emilio Fede you might think that it was unsafe for women to walk the streets of Milan without being raped by some straniero. The statistics are rather different however, and Italy is one of the safest countries in the EU for levels of violent crime but you wouldn't know it if you were in Italy. Italians who can't read English have no external source whereby they can see what's going on so maybe their fear is justified if Emilio Fede, Canale 4 e 5 and what the politicians tell them is their only source of information.

It all makes sense- Berlu owns most of the media. He uses it to instill fear in the hearts of the populace, then bills himself in the election as their security blanket. With no independent information source, people don't know any better and fall for the ruse.

Unfortunately Italy is one of the easier countries to immigrate to illegally so there are a lot of immigrants. Most are decent, but as always there are a few scoundrels.

quote:

Originally posted by Kat67:

Rather it seems unacceptable to criticise anything here without being seen as communist or be told to return to your own country. can you believe Di Pietro has been branded a neo fascist yesterday, the man is only telling the truth. Believe it or not I pay taxes and are contributing to the Italian economy so if I don't like something which is unacceptable and uncivilised then its right to complain about it and as whats happening at the moment is uncivilised and undemocratic, why are more people not complaining what are they afraid of. I think indifference is the worst thing, at least the facists have the courage to admit what they are, its the indifference of the masses that allows them to get into power though.

I have to agree with you. As an Italian I find it disheartening to see how most people just don't seem to understand (or care) that our Democracy is falling apart and this will hurt all of us. I'm very worried about our future.

very worrying what i saw on the ADUC website today:

http://www.aduc.it/dyn/immigrazione/noti.php?id=226271

are we going back to the times of the illegal detention of people seen at the G8 (which was such a big coincidence with Berlusconi winning the election a few days before....)

The sickening part- Maroni intends to double or triple the number of CPTs to hold all the people they'll round up once the Security Package passes the Camera this week. They're looking into using disused caserme for the purpose.

The govt's attitude seems to be: let them starve if they want to.

Better late than never- Tuscan schools to start teaching anti-racism:
http://www.aduc.it/dyn/immigrazione/noti.php?id=226493

quote:

Originally posted by Kat67:
are we going back to the times of the illegal detention of people seen at the G8 (which was such a big coincidence with Berlusconi winning the election a few days before....)

Speak of the devil:
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/07/15/news/Italy-G-8-Violence.php

As it turns out, none of the facist goons will do jail time.

quote:

The 15 Italian police officers and doctors sentenced to jail for brutally mistreating detainees at a holding camp after the 2001 G8 riots were yesterday celebrating their freedom after it became clear that none of them would actually serve prison terms.

Defendants in Italy do not go to jail for most offences until they have exhausted all the appeals to which they are entitled, normally at least two. And in this case, it emerged, the convictions and sentences alike will be wiped out by a statute of limitations next year.

Late on Monday, judges in Genoa where the summit was held convicted 15 accused and acquitted a further 30. Those found guilty, including the camp commander, Biagio Gugliotta, were given jail sentences ranging from five months to five years. The only real effect of the verdict will be to allow the victims to receive compensation.

The court heard that detainees from Britain, Italy, France, Germany and elsewhere were insulted, kicked, beaten and sprayed with asphyxiating gas in their cells. Some were threatened with rape. Others were forced to shout out chants in praise of Italy's late fascist dictator, Benito Mussolini.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/16/italy.g8

Update on the 4,000 Muslims evicted from the Viale Jenner mosque:

Now they are being told by Milano where to go pray from week to week. Looks like they may end up in a disused psychiatric hospital next week.

http://www.corriere.it/vivimilano/cronache/articoli/200...chea_palasharp.shtml

No, not the psychiatric hospital- this week's prayers were held at a bicycle race track. Surprise, moving to a different location each week has reduced attendance from 4,000 to 500. But Leghista-Nord assessore regionale al Territorio e Urbanistica Davide Boni, finds a more sinister motive- they're all illegal aliens hiding from the police!

"Forse - continua l'esponente della Lega Nord - hanno avuto paura proprio coloro che hanno qualcosa da nascondere, perche' chi e' in regola con le leggi vigenti nel nostro Paese non ha alcun motivo per non partecipare ad un momento di preghiera in un luogo pubblico, alla luce del sole".
http://www.agi.it/milano/notizie/200807181848-eco-rmi1039-art.html

What with muslims in the North making too much noise in Milan now we have the gypsies ruining people's day out at the beach with their packed lunch....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-pict...3.html?startindex=60

some of the comments to this article are unbelievale..

I never noticed this before... http://annunci.bakeca.it/_pariopportunita
Apparently we are to report discriminatory postings?? Well, what about the borderline cases such as ones that say "we also rent to non-Italians with excellent references"...?

I would just like to point that you get racism everywhere, ok in different measures but its still there.

I was offended by the people here are uneducated and ignorent comment ad im not even Italian. Instead of saying how awful and upsetting seeing the racisim here is why dont you stop for a moment and think why that is.

Alot of crime is coming from immigrants who come here with no work and turn to crime to live. There have been more stabbing and crimes envolving immigrants alot who are Romanina. I am not saying there all bad but there are those out there who create a bad impression and so all Romanians are seen as thiefs and bad people.

Similar things have happened in countries such as England and America and are still happening.Theres alots of Crime in England due to floods of immigrants who cant fnd work and turn to drugs, crime and prostitution to live.

So its better to understand why people act in a certain way than say there stupid and ignorant.

Well unfortunately although the subject link is racism in Italy, racism is rife europe wide at the moment. Well Clair I don't know where you are from but I am offended by your comment as my boyfried (being Indian) is considered one of the so called "immigrants". I am English and I would like to inform you that the violent crime rate in England has reduced drastically in the last 15 years so London is actually safer now than it was 15 years ago (although petty and non violent crime is on the increase). I am also offended by the fact that you think immigration in the UK is a negative thing, one of the rare positive points of my country is its multicultural and tollerant society! No doubt when I take my Indian boyfriend to the Uk I will be helping flood the country with immigrants

Most of the crime carried out in the UK is just emphasised out of proportion by the media as it is here but when its read by ingorant people they then immagine that foreigners are responsible for the countries problems because unfortunately ignorant people are just that... ignorant! ie unable to investigate the truth and back it up by statistics, then of course in these conditions its easy for fascism to rear its ugly head.

Im sorry if I offended u Kat i did not intend to i have many immigrant friends including Indian, Cuban, Polish, Bulgarian and it was not my intention if i worded it wrongly.

Im English i lived in London for 9 years and i know London still isnt that safe as knife crime has gone up, many of my friends have been mugged.

And i also said that there are some immigrants that cause crime which makes people look badly on all of Immigrants. I know alot of people who move to different countries do important jobs like teachers, nurses, doctors etc.

But you still have the small group who turn to crime and then give a bad impression for all immigrants.

The trademark for real estate agents seems to be, "don't worry, no immigrants/foreigners around this neighborhood, it is very safe". OF COURSE they don't mean ME, the civilized immigrant, they mean those dark skinned scary people...(sarchasm, by the way). Obviously this is a marketing tactic re