quote:

Originally posted by Bill 2:
Let's fight letting the precedent be set instead of letting it go unchallenged.

I agree 100%...

For those who think the Viale Jenner Mosque was a traffic issue...

Now the eviction of the Milanese congregation is being held up as an example of how to handle "the Islamist problem" in Genova. Right wing councilmen voting against city plans to authorize a mosque in Genova invoke "il Ministro dell’Interno Roberto Maroni adotta una politica di particolare prudenza e severità, come nel caso milanese di via Jenner, a proposito degli aspetti della sicurezza pubblica correlati ai luoghi di culto islamico."
http://www.genovapress.com/index.php/content/view/25239/61/

Does "culto islamico" represent a linguistic particular I just haven't become familiar with yet... or is it really the below the belt blow it strikes me as?

It's just another word for a religion or sect, including culto cattolica.

Ahhhh.... ok. Had a sneaking suspicion, still getting my head around the intricacies of the language.

While on the subject... what word is used to refer to religions outside the mainstream (as cult is in english)?

Setta has more of a negative connotation.

Leghista Bondi tells anyone who disgrees with the eviction of the viale Jenner mosque to leave Italy. Where have I heard that before?

quote:

"Il trasferimento delle attività svolte nel centro culturale islamico di viale Jenner - conclude Boni - deve proseguire e deve essere completato in termini assolutamente brevi. Nessun momento di preghiera potrà più essere autorizzato e consentito in quel luogo. Milano e i milanesi hanno già avuto troppa pazienza e meritano di avere una città più vivibile e sicura. Chi non è d'accordo con le decisioni assunte in questi ultimi mesi dalle istituzioni milanesi e lombarde, dal prefetto e dalle forze dell'ordine, è liberissimo di lasciare il nostro paese".

http://notizie.alice.it/notizie/politica/2008/08_agosto...dietro,15755167.html

In Genova-Nervi a gang of 13 beats and kicks an Angolan college student, son of an Angolan govt minister. http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Cronaca/?id=1.0.2419231494

Now you can't even go swimming in Italy if you have dark skin:
http://www.aduc.it/dyn/immigrazione/noti.php?id=230658

No going in museums for Muslim women wearing veils:

quote:

Per godersi gli affreschi di Tiepolo, le vedute di cataletto o gli altri capolavori del settecento veneziano ci si deve togliere il velo.

Ne è convinto un guardiano di Cà Rezzonico, museo sul Canal Grande, che ha impedito a una turista straniera col niqab, il velo che lascia scoperti solo gli occhi, di visitare le esposizioni del palazzo settecentesco.

Secondo quanto raccontano alcuni quotidiani locali, la donna, accompagnata da marito e figlia, ha acquistato senza problemi il biglietto di ingresso. Una volta dentro è stata però fermata dal guardiano e messa di fronte all’aut aut per "motivi di sicurezza": o si toglieva il velo o restava fuori.

"È stata la libera iniziativa di un guardiano, che ha commesso un grave errore. Prenderemo provvedimenti" ha dichiarato il conservatore del museo, Filippo Pedrocco. A Carnevale, per motivi di sicurezza, le persone che entrano mascherate vengono invitate a scoprirsi il volto, ma secondo Pedrocco la regola va interpretata e in questo caso "la signora aveva tutto il diritto di visitare il museo".

Hi, I'm a new member planning to move to Marche some time in the next 6 months or so. This topic caught my eye and has opened a seething bucket of worms for me. We adopted twins from India who are age 3 right now, and I hadn't thought that racism would be an issue for them in Italy - now I'm not so sure. And is there really a growing racist tendency against stranieri of all sorts? Should we be worried?

quote:

And is there really a growing racist tendency against stranieri of all sorts? Should we be worried?

I don't know if racism's growing, or if people are simply inspired by the current Italian govt to express their racism more openly. Either way- I'm worried. Denying people access to a public swimming pool because of skin color (for example) is a big step backwards into 1960's Alabama. That's not a good place for Italy to go.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill 2:

quote:

And is there really a growing racist tendency against stranieri of all sorts? Should we be worried?

I don't know if racism's growing, or if people are simply inspired by the current Italian govt to express their racism more openly. Either way- I'm worried. Denying people access to a public swimming pool because of skin color (for example) is a big step backwards into 1960's Alabama. That's not a good place for Italy to go.

Will this 'racism' be against ALL stranieri? Quite honestly I doubt it... The Lega here, as other racially motivated parties in many other countries, tend to target their intolerant tendencies towards the poor - not against those they perceive as from affluent and self supporting societies.

I haven't seen any rantings by the two 'B's' (no , NOT two bar stewards...I mean Berla and Bossi. But then again....) about British, American, Canadian etc. expats. Have you?

Highly unlikely. They like having 'allies' like us to enhance their 'International Standing'. Far more useful than the support of governments like those of Somalia, Ethiopia, Romania, Bulgaria etc. etc. No they won't bite the hands that help them - but they will bite the hands that try to take away their bone!
They don't like sharing 'anything' with 'anyone'!

Carole, Zuppa Inglese was asking about racism toward his two children from India, not about Canadians, British and Americans.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill 2:
Carole, Zuppa Inglese was asking about racism toward his two children from India, not about Canadians, British and Americans.

Point taken - my apologies for any confusion.

So please take it that my post was in response to only ONE question by him - which you highlighted Bill - and not on the entire post made by Zuppa Inglese.

When he refers to "racist tendency against stranieri of all sorts" do you think he means against stranieri of the same race as Italians? Doesn't racism refer to prejudice and discrimination toward races other than one's own?

Sorry for the confusion. I was referring mainly to my twins, but also, in reading through this thread and others I have noticed people talking about changing attitudes towards non-Italians in general, which is xenophobia, not racism, granted. I'm not, however, anticipating much bother from that quarter. It took a while for people to adjust to an Englishman here in New England, and likewise my wife found she got strange reactions, for a while, as an American in London. But we're grown-ups.

No, it's the twins I'm worried about. They definitely do not look European, in fact they've been mistaken for Eritreans before now. There is a lot of multi-ethnic adoption in Italy these days, particularly from Ethiopia and India, interestingly enough, but I wonder how much that has affected the general climate. Here in the US there has been a gigantic upswing in adoptions from abroad, enough to make a noticeable demographic change even in small rural towns like ours, and I think, at least here, that has gone a long way towards quietly ending the sort of casual prejudice that comes from living in racially non-diverse communities (and Vermont is incredibly white).

I've started a new thread on this subject, as I'm really keen on getting some feedback - thanks for replying!

Yes, the replies were muddled by the confusion of nationality with race. For example, Americans might be well-accepted in Italy if they are white, but what of the tens of millions of Afro-Americans, Asian-Americans, Latin Americans and millions of Muslim Americans? We have instances described on the board where they have encountered prejudice in Italy (two that come to mind were from dentpatient and Italian Meat). Skin color seems to trump nationality pretty consistently.

I saw a report last night on France 24 tv news about the Roma/Romanians issue. Seems the French are cleaning up the "slums" and exporting all those that don't fit a profile, do they have a job, how well do they speak French, are they willing to integrate, etc. Only about 1 in 6 are allowed to stay the rest given a free bus ticket back to Romania, 300 euros for adults and 100 for kids. The ones allowed to stay are helped where possibile with housing and job searching.

I guess the point is that it's not only Italy treating the situation like this, otherwise I just thought it was interesting.

Not surprising- Sarko is a right-winger, same as Berlu.

Here's a print version- sounds like one suburban town north of Paris:
http://www.france24.com/en/20080828-roma-camp-faces-evi...-gypsies&navi=FRANCE

Yeah, he wants to be Bush's best friend too.

Lega Nord draws a line in the sand: Genova is not a Muslim republic. Muslims should pray in their own houses because the Genovese "siamo stanchi delle moschee".

http://www.stranieriinitalia.it/attualita-borghezio_gen..._musulmana_5583.html

Black Italian citizen bludgeoned to death with a tire iron in Milano for stealing some biscotti:
http://www.corriere.it/cronache/08_settembre_14/milano_...b-00144f02aabc.shtml