Italians ban Coca-Cola on the eve of Winter Olympics in Turin..

amazing after all this time but I don't know how to post a link --this headline on the column at right of our Expats Main Site page....

OK - may we please discuss...the odd love/hate relationship that Italy in 2005 has with the U.S. of A. ...??!! They WANT Coke and Hamburgers....(I have an italian stepson, I know this to be true, like it or not). They HATE Coke and Hamburgers. They WANT McDonalds. They HATE McDonalds. They love us, they hate us. Sometimes I get so frustrated, because as soon as I am identified as a "Statunitense", I start to hear "Booosh Boooosh Boooosh....!" ad infinitum, and I start to feel like they think I AM "Boooosh"!!! (I'm SO not!)

And then I get cranky, and start to get expat whinyiness....which is not good.....

Are you talking about this story?:

http://english.pravda.ru/world/20/91/365/16558_Turin.html

Unfortunately Pravda, a Russian quasi-tabloid, is a bit behind things this time. This was actually shot down a few weeks ago, at the last I heard. Maybe it was resurrected. In nutshell, the city of Turin tried to ban Coca-cola products at city-owned facilities. It didn't happen

However, the "why" of this campaign - as in, "why" did they try to ban Coca-cola in the first place - is still definitely worth discussing. It's far too complicated for me to say...

I can definately identify with your feelings. I told a friend that I was having Thanksgiving dinner at my house in to which he replied "What are you going to eat, ketchup and mayonaise?". It was probably a harmless reply but it just sounded so damn cocky...get over yourselves.
It's amazing how they are all against fastfood but if you look inside a Mcdonalds you can't even get past the front door it's so full. I told an Italian friend of mine this and he said "oh no, but they're all tourists and foriegners". That's funny, I didn't know all foriegners and tourists spoke Italian so well with such strong Milanese accents.
Italy is a great country but I think alot of this comes from insecurity. It takes them so long to catch up with the rest of the western world. Yes that can definately be a strong point but not when it means having an organized burocracy, decnt salaries,technology, a competitive economy blah blah blah. I don't think they're jealous of us (don't you remember we have no history and we eat only Mcdonald's and ketchup?)...but maybe abit envious.
Artistically Italy is a relic. A country that lives on it's past. A country where there is no research. A country taht is static where anyone with talent runs away as soon as they get the chance.
It's been a great five years but sometimes I honestly ask myself what I'm doing here. I have no ties and I wonder now that I'm looking for a job what's the point. Am I willing to give up a career to be an "impiegato" at best? Am I willing to live in a country with no future for a plate of spaghetti, some pretty hills and quaint village?
Boh!

Laurie, the "Booosh" thing makes me LOL! I've never been so closely associated with a man I despise until I moved here. I find myself taking it personally, but then I think, I didn't even vote for him, why am I defending him? I've experienced this in every country that I've lived in (France & England), so I'm not sure if it's an uniquely Italian phenomenon. Same goes for McDonald's. In France, where they really dislike all things American, the McDonald's was always packed. The French too explained it as "tourist and Americans", but I don't think there were many of either in Bordeaux in Feb.!

Well, here in Torino it's all italians in the McDonalds, but you see it's all America's fault for teaching such bad eating habits. And George Bush goes to the supermarket every day to make the moms buy kinder treats for merenda, in order to make the children fat. Right. I'm no pal of GW's, but I've never seen him in the Conad! I do understand that madison avenue has totally influenced ALL of the world, and in not so positive ways...but it's really easy for us as expats to take it personally.

Re your future in Italy....it's a tough one. It's clear you have a lot to offer in your chosen profession, and that you feel a special connection with Italy, and a passion for keeping the arts alive -- or resurrecting them as the case may be. I'd like to tell you not to run away the way many of the local talent does...but that's very idealistic, and not my cabbages!!! Sono cavoli tuoi! I hope the right path reveals itself soon. It would be sad if the negatives of trying to work here were to undermine your passion for the work you do.

Hi Aniboy.

I'm Italian. I LOVE USA. I spent six months studying in Los Angeles. Humbly, I thought that the USA, with its wonders,its differences,its shortcomings and positive aspects and yes ALL HIS MANY MANY negative aspects could help me learn who I am and learn how to make Italy a better place. Came back to my Country to give to it what I have learnt abroad.I didn't run away.
Decided that despite everything, it was the best place to live in. I am an "IMPIEGATA" if you want to know. An IMPIEGATA whith some qualifications working in Italian bureaucracy to make it better.
A lawyer with a master in HR, one in Civil Law and a PHD in Law at the University of Modena.

Talk English and look for USA people to help along the way F.O.C. whenever I can Just because I love you as people.
Get an USA flag in my old room at my mother's house.
Love Mac burgers (not often, they give me stomach ache)but prefer the plate of spaghetti you seem to despise.
Anyway, I'm humble and proud enough to tell you I DO NOT ENVY ANYONE because there's no other Country as my home.
You are the only one who can tell what you are doing here. I cannot say it for you.


Do not listen to people despising USA. For 1 of them there is at least 1 of us loving the USA and looking at the USA as an old nonno looks at a clever, energetic, beloved nipote.One of us who knows what thanksgiving means. Who knows and loves your young culture, full of life and hopes.

One thing I can tell: We are here since 1000 B.C. and now it's 2005 A.D.AND COUNTING.
I think it's not only about spaghetti and a quaint village. It's a long way to Tipperary.

Con stima
Chiara Degli Esposti

P.S. re BOOSH

I know how does it feel.
In the USA I got MAFFIA MAFFIA MAFFIA
(Mafia is written and pronounced with an F)
Soppranos Soppranos Soppranos

I thought that the world is the same everywhere.
Here we say "la madre degli imbecilli è sempre incinta" here's to you the translation.

Ok back to my bureaucratic impiegata warm work in the little village.
Maybe at 01.00 p.m. I'll close my bureaucratic little sportello, I'll take my car to climb my little quaint hill and have a plate of spaghetti for lunch.

And...per finire...take a look at this. Spaghetti e non
http://www.repubblica.it/2005/l/sezioni/cronaca/rapport.../rapportocensis.html
http://www.repubblica.it/2005/l/sezioni/cronaca/rapport...dia/censismedia.html
Chiara

Chiara, Re: Mafia. You are from Bologna, so can you imagine what I got in my 20 years abroad? As soon as I told them I was from Palermo they seriously wanted me to regale them with tales of Mafia. Some people even thought my living conditions in Sicily were so behind the times that they volunteered to EXPLAIN what a dishwashing machine is, as if I'd never seen one.

I am old enough to remember that in the late 70s after the BR killed Aldo Moro, some German magazines said that Italy was finished, that it was in the dump, no tourism, bad economy too much bureaucracy etc. Then a few years later there was il sorpasso. What I am trying to say is, that Italy has been through this a few times before and has been able to come out of it, despite what the Economist says. It's a rough patch, and here it takes a while to come out of it. If I had the time I would describe all the hopeful things that make me think we're on our way out of this. So, Aniboy, it clearly is your choice, but don't toss the baby out with the bathwater.

As for the topic of the thread: I am an Italian who loves americans (heck, I even married one!) but sees the "young nephew" going in a bit of a bad direction right now. So I have mixed feelings about it, but I have lived there and appreciated what the country had to offer. However I was at a party in Italy a few years back where I got attacked by another guest who assumed that since I lived in the U.S. I agreed with the Booosh admin. So you see, there are always cretini around, but by no means everyone is this stupid.

One importnat issue to keep in mind is that the US is not Coca-Cola, not anymore than Italy is spaghetti. Coca-Cola is a famous drink that is produced locally on licence from the Coca-Cola company, which is based in the US but it's actually (now) internationally owned (it has shareholders in the whole world). by saying that italian hate the US because the Comune di Torino decided to ban (or try to) Coca-Cola (the drink) from its premises and events would sound like the Americans hating Italy and the Italians because cured pork meat cannot be legally imported (with a few exceptions).

In what is a good old salame di Felino (it's the name of a town, not cat meat!) different from a Coca-cola can?

Actually, there's a bit of difference because, as far as I know, no salame producer in Felino ever paid death squadrons to frighten and sometimes kill Unionists in Colombia, which is one thing Coca-Cola is accused of. Now, notice, I used the word "accused" because so far there haven't been yet any third party investigations on the issue, so it's basically Coca-Cola word against the Colombian Union SINALTRAINAL's. And no Felino producer exceeds by five times the authorized ammount of water it is authorized to pump from a source in Kerala (India), thus causing the reduction of drinking wter available to the local people (in this case Coca-Cola was declared guilty in trial but recurred), neither is accused of having done so in other areas of India and in chile as well. Neither any Felino producer holds a position of near-monopoly in the worldwide market of soft drinks (once again, not third party analysis of the situation, so it's accused only).

Also, such bans have been placed on Italian products or brnds as well, having been spawned from similar boycotting campaigns. It's the case for Benetton, Standa, FIAT/Ifi, Eni, Parmalat. Does this mean that Italians have Italy and Italians, or just that some people have issues against these industries and brands?

On the other hand, just as well as the US government is entitled to place fiscal barriers to foreign products coming from abroad and which may disrupt the local economy, Italy may as well consider banning some foreign (or foreign-owned) products in order to favor Italian producers (like San Pellegrino, for instance) in the same field.

Finally, before claiming that Itlaians have the US ancause some o us (institutions included) decided to boycott the brand Coca-Cola, read this US website about the Coca-Cola boycott campaing and the chapter about soft drinks and fast food in schools in Fast Food Nation. Read as well the official press releases by Coca-Cola on the same issues, if you want (sorry, could not find any link to them), than decide for yoruself on which side you want to place yourself. But remeber that you will not start hating the US if you decide that it's worthwile boycotting Coca-Cola, neither you will be supporting the US if you decide to keep drinking it. Coca-Cola is just a drink.

Every nation and nationality has both it's critics and it's follwers. It's nothing new.

This always gives me a 'good kick' to remind me that it only take 'un pizzico di pazienza, condita con un po di toleranza'

'If'
By Rudyard Kipling

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream -- and not make dreams your master;
If you can think -- and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings -- nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run --
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And -- which is more -- you'll be a Man, my son!


Carole B.

Laurie makes me laugh with Boosh, Boosh, Boosh too.

About junk food in general, my hubby has been asking me to make him chocolate pudding from a box once a week, I think it is called Budino. He was eating the equivalent of Jell-O chocolate pudding before I was born. He ate this all the time as a child and his granny used to make it for him, also now he is back in Italy he eats Fiesta bars and other sweets like Gianduja and torrone. Isn't Gianduja like a Nestle bar with hazelnuts instead of almonds? Yup, it is I tasted it. Is it better junk since it is from Italy and maybe labled artignale?

San Pelligrino Chinotto, Limonate and Aranciata have as much sugar and crap in it as Coca-Cola does. It all needs to be taken in moderation. Did anyone force bar owners to put mayo on tramezzini? Did Americans come in and force the tonno e carciofi to be smothered with mayo, I'm not sure. All countries have junk food and if you don't like junk food then don't eat it.

Lately however I have been craving Rice Crispy treats...I'm a junk food victim too.

I agree with those who say that the world is all the same. There are commons places, sometimes are right sometimes are wrong. Sure I eat more pasta than sushi, although I could have sushi everyday if I only want to. I could go to Mc Donald's, I seldom eat there but it is fast (and not healty) and that junkie tastes so damn good. French thinks they're the best cuisine in the world. I went to France a few times and the only thing I remember of were oyster, but I am sure I can find a restaurant in Italy that has better ones. So what? Frenchs call Italians "maccheroni" (and pronounce it maccheronì) as a joke, someone is convinced that all the US are fats and dress in a freaky way. But if you think about Baywatch you can't remember a single fat woman/man. And about the dressing, you can think about "Sex and the city" or other similar and see that's not true. You shouldn't care about the comment about cocacola or humburger. I see them as global food because I found them in every corner of the world. They are unhealty as cannoli, cassata siciliana and so on..

Has anyone ever thought for a moment that the people who make these VAST GENERALIZATIONS are either 1) ignorant or 2) just trying to say something to show their familiarity with someone. FOr example, I hear a lot of Boosh boosh when I am there and talk to people about where I am from, but Boosh is all over the International news so everyone knows about him. McDonalds is international, coca cola is International (although defintely associated with usa). It is like in America when people know I go to italy a lot, they'll say, "I love the Olive Garden. Italian food is so good." (For Italians on the board the Olive Garden is a gross chain restaurant claiming to have Italian food.)

So my point is that if I talk to 5 people in Italy who can point to one American thing, I don't take that as representative of my country. And I certainly don't take offense. I take it as them trying to find something in common. Such as, "Oh, I know America."

Hating Americans and hating coca cola---well, what can I say. I don't persoanlly see the message as hating americans but more like hating the corporation or corporate tactics.

PS--Pola:

Baywatch actors aren't real people!

quote:

Originally posted by julienini:
PS--Pola:

Baywatch actors aren't real people!

So what are they?

First to Gia-Gina...I lived in Guam and when I read Hafa Dai on another thread it reminded me of a little song we were taught in school. Thanks for that memory! Also I made Rice Krispie treats with cocoa krispies the other day..so good!
NOW, do people "hate" americans or are they just jealous because they think we all have something they don't? Merck announced last week they are closing 5 plants - 7000 people without jobs. This week it's GM closing plants - thousands without jobs. Why do these companies do it right before the holidays? i feel so bad for these people. Where will they go for jobs? Probably McDonald's or other fast food places. They are always hiring.

Also has anyone seen Super Size Me? About a guy who ate nothing but McDonald's for 30 days. Got really sick, almost did damage to his body for life! My husband says no fast food anymore!

Annika: of course I meant real representative people! That is what I am saying though, Italy sees USA through reruns of Baywatch, Murder She Wrote and Gilmore Girls. hardly what America really is like!

LOL yes I know, Julie! And thank God that everybody doesn't look like David Hasselhoff!

Okay, I'll go back to my sofa now, never mind me!

jmisgro, ha ha it's Hafa Adai and email me privately I would love to know how you ended up on Guam. My parents are still there along with three sisters.

quote:

Originally posted by Annika:

quote:

Originally posted by julienini:
PS--Pola:

Baywatch actors aren't real people!

So what are they?

I thought they were 'blow-up' plastic dolls!!!!

Well, not exactly blow-up, but you might be right about plastic!!

Have you guys heard the Vatican on Pamela Anderson?

Only 70% of her body is going to heaven, because that's all that's real...

quote:

someone is convinced that all the US are fats and dress in a freaky way. But if you think about Baywatch you can't remember a single fat woman/man. And about the dressing, you can think about "Sex and the city" or other similar and see that's not true.

I'm afraid Pola that many of the US people are real "fats" diabetes type 2 is rampant here--and that few of them resemble the sitcoms you've been watching. I live here. I see them everyday. Baywatch it is not.

Had to fix the quote format. /Annika

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Annika,

To defend the US -

I don't know many people who are fat. I know lots of people who'd be considered robust (or big-boned) and plump, but I know them in Italy too.

It's true that there are many people in the US that are fat, I see them on TV specials all the time about how "fat" the US is and how dangerous it is to our health. But many times I think they must have filmed a city I didn't live in. On average, the fattest city