I saw this comment from 'piccola katie' on the Change in shops thread and just had to comment.

quote:

"... When entering in a shop, always say "buon giorno" and when leaving always say, "grazie, arrivederci"... even if you didn't buy anything."

In Italy it is considered polite - and perfectly NORMAL - to say "Salve", "Buongiorno", "Grazie, arrivederci" etc. when entering or leaving any establishment of any kind. Indeed it is EXPECTED.

To NOT do so is considered really bad mannered and will probably be reflected in the service you get, or don't get....

I know that I found it incredibly difficult, when I first came here years ago, to actually speak to people I didn't know. But soon learned that is WAS 'the norm'

Everyone does it - from youngsters to the really elderly. It's polite and as far as I'm concerned is soooo much nicer than the habit that I grew up with in the UK of studiously ignoring strangers at every opportunity and glaring at them if they even so much as smiled at me!

OK I know children are taught never to speak to strangers, but this is totally different and small children here seem to instinctively know 'when they can and when they shouldn't'!

I find also that by offering a greeting when entering (for example) my local bar or my doctors waiting room, 'the ice is immediately broken' and often another friendly comment perhaps about the weather or to ask "Who is last?" makes for a pleasant atmosphere.

BUT...If you go into a shop, office or wherever and you choose to ignore this civilised habit - then you do so AT YOUR OWN PERIL!

Carole - when I went shopping with a friend of mine in London last year she had to tell me to please stop saying Good Morning to everyone as it made me sound foreign!

What's up with the English that they can't even say hi when entering a shop or bar?

It reminds me of growing up in a small town in the South (US). Total strangers would always start talking to you. I don't know if other parts of the US were like that in the 50's and 60's, or if the South is still that way today. Luckily Italy still is.

Kate Fox's 'The Rules of Being English' (now out in paperback) is an excellent read for those wanting to know what is up with us English. She makes great reference to the fact that it is simply not English to speak to strangers. Attempts by a stranger - particularly on public transport - to converse result in said stranger being considered extremely wierd. I myself would probably change carriage! My Italian OH, having read this book, said he now understood why years of saying 'good morning' on his daily bus to fellow commuters got him no response.

I say Hi to friends and acquaintances - not to people I don't know. Equally I won't kiss strangers or people I've only met a few times. Basically as far as I'm concerned, kissing = intimacy, not for sharing amongst acquaintances.

Obivously there are degrees of Englishness and I guess I am very English!

Oddly enough, there were many places in NYC where total strangers struck up conversations. Obviously, it depended on the vibe, but it wasn't unusual.

As for the English, I had a delightful conversation with three ladies from Cornwall in a coffee shop at Gatwick. Maybe being a bit more Celtic, they weren't really behaving like the English?

As far as the UK is concerned it is fine to say hello in a village but not in a city. When I visit my parents (village pop. 3000) I always say hello to strangers and there nobody thinks I'm behaving like a foreigner! Having said that I struck up a conversation with an Italian at a bus stop in Southampton once -he said that he'd been in the UK for 6 months and I was the first person that had spontaneously spoken to him! I take after my grandmother in this respect though - she always strikes up conversations with whoever happens to be around and has been known to talk on the phone to a "wrong number" for the best part of an hour!

I used to always talk to people on buses etc in New York! In fact I met one of my best friends (female) coming home from a party on the 1 train at around 2am. We'd both had a few drinks though. Of course the vibe has to be right.

I've never seen anyone say "buongiorno" on the Rome metro or on a bus in Rome - MrsC - people might have thought your OH a little odd in Rome too. I think it's a big city public transport thing. You can chat with people if the vibe is right (say, you want to kvetch about how late the train is..) but it would be a little odd to say buongiorno to everyone in your carriage - especially women travelling alone!

In Toronto it is generally the norm to greet people when entering a store (etc.) and not uncommon to strike up a conversation with a stranger.

When I visited Manhatten I was pleasantly surprised to find that it is one of THE most friendly places I have ever been! The people there were so welcoming and had no problems chatting even though they didn't know me! GREAT place!

New Yorkers are not shrinking violets and I really like that about them. I love meeting new people and I was always meeting them in NYC and they tended to be really interesting too.

I don't find people particularly friendly in Rome (apart from sleazy men ) - but they do say "buongiorno" when you walk into a shop. It's just the custom. They're not always ready for a chat though - it's just polite here.

From what people here have said here about the UK, I don't think I could live there. I tend to be pretty outgoing and I guess everyone would think I was really weird.

I don't use public transportation much except when in Milan. There I've never seen much of anything but sour faces and never seen anyone speak to a stranger. Here in Belluno the locals have reputation for being very closed.

I find it fun when skiing to test people on the chair lift or gondola. If I don't speak to them, I've never had anyone say anything to me. But if I say something, most if not nearly all seem glad that someone was interested in talking with them.

I wouldn't greet people on public transport - too many people! It would just seem weird but I WOULD in a more cosy environment e.g. a six seater carriage in the train - I always say Buon Giorno as that's what most people seem to say!

quote:

It reminds me of growing up in a small town in the South (US). Total strangers would always start talking to you. I don't know if other parts of the US were like that in the 50's and 60's, or if the South is still that way today. Luckily Italy still is.

Bill, the South (note the capitalisation) is still like that, and after years of the perfunctory buongiorno/bonjour it shocked me no end in Savannah to have complete strangers say Hey there, how's it going? like they meant it.

Culture note: In Italy it's true people are polite to the point of comfortably (but not intrusively) friendly, but the one thing that stood out was while Parisians, arguably some of the rudest people on the planet, are cool to the point of snobbery, they will do oddball things, like look behind them when going through a swinging door and, get this, actually hold it open for you. Never got that in Italy in 23 years!

Yeah, people aren't so good at the whole "living with other people" thing here sometimes. Like they don't hold doors open for others, don't move in the metro carriage at rush hour, litter, don't move over to one side when you want to run down the escalators and double park people in while they "just run into the bar for a coffee". But I've concluded that that's just a general cultural thing of not being aware of the people around you - they don't really mean any harm by it.

I'm 18 weeks pregnant now and take the Rome metro at rush hour to work every day. I'm still at that "is she fat or pregnant? stage" but when I'm visibly pregnant in a few weeks time(and the coats are off) I'll see whether anyone stands up for me on the metro! You so rarely see pregnant women here that I've never actually seen anyone stand up for a pregnant woman on the train. But to me that would be a politeness litmus test.

quote:

Originally posted by Ramona:
I'm 18 weeks pregnant now and take the Rome metro at rush hour to work every day. I'm still at that "is she fat or pregnant? stage"

Auguri Ramona!!!

"It reminds me of growing up in a small town in the South (US). Total strangers would always start talking to you. I don't know if other parts of the US were like that in the 50's and 60's, or if the South is still that way today. Luckily Italy still is."

it's still that way here in east tennessee bill2..
then when i go to meetings or conventions up north or out west, i'm rudely awakened to where i am. i try to just stay here in the south or go to italia to regain my sanity.

quote:

when I'm visibly pregnant in a few weeks time(and the coats are off) I'll see whether anyone stands up for me on the metro

Is this your first pregnancy in Italy??? You have no idea: cars will screech to a halt to let you cross, they'll not just give up a seat on metro or bus, they'll practically empty the car for you. Downside: people will be patting your tum like it's their own. I never imagined what it would be like, but when I was expecting in Italy, it was like I was a madonna. Lovely times!

C in Bo makes a good point about the difference in locality making a difference in the UK. London is not England, for example, and in some areas you'd be hard pushed to find locals: it's something foreign students of English complain about! The capital's mass transit systems are so busy that they aren't conducive to relaxed conversation.

The last time I was in Southampton and talked to someone spontaneously at a bus stop they turned out to be Polish (I think!) and didn't have a word of English. By and large though I think it is just the English respecting people's personal space, not wanting to seem nosey, and not a lack of friendliness.
Like JHelm I think this ski season it has always been me that started any lift conversation so I take after my Mum who does it in bus queues.:-)

quote:

Originally posted by filomena:

quote:

when I'm visibly pregnant in a few weeks time(and the coats are off) I'll see whether anyone stands up for me on the metro

Is this your first pregnancy in Italy??? You have no idea: cars will screech to a halt to let you cross, they'll not just give up a seat on metro or bus, they'll practically empty the car for you. Downside: people will be patting your tum like it's their own. I never imagined what it would be like, but when I was expecting in Italy, it was like I was a madonna. Lovely times!

Wow - I can't wait!

I guess there are so few pregnant women in Italy that you're kind of rockstar if you are pregnant.

I went through three pregnancies here in Rome and between pregnancy one and pregnancy three definitely noticed a degeneration in the courtesy extended to pregnant women on public transport.

With my first pregnancy, the moment I stepped one foot onto a bus or on the metro I had at least 4 or 5 people immediately stand up and offer me their seat. It was almost embarrassing! With my second a couple years after the first, it was about 2 or 3 people. During my most recent (and final!) pregnancy in 2005/2006, the only person who would get up was usually an elderly woman with a cane! How could I accept that?? Everyone else - fit young guys included - would sit there and just look at me struggling or looking visibly fatigued or uncomfortable.

Congratulations Ramona and I do hope you'll experience a higher level of courtesy than I did this last pregnancy. If you use public transportation a lot, it's a gesture you will definitely appreciate - especially in the summer months.

quote:

Originally posted by lomalinda66:
During my most recent (and final!) pregnancy in 2005/2006, the only person who would get up was usually an elderly woman with a cane! How could I accept that?? Everyone else - fit young guys included - would sit there and just look at me struggling or looking visibly fatigued or uncomfortable.

Making a rare appearance here because the babe is actually sleeping- a rare occasion! I have to say I experienced very little courtesy during my pregnancy- less than before I was pregnant. For example, more people cut in front of me than ever before (or tried to) at restrooms, dr's office, shops. I guess they thought I'd take longer being pregnant? Who knows. It got pretty annoying at the end when it became harder to stand for long periods of time. When we went to the Questura at 8 months I brought a folding stool with me because I knew no one would offer a seat (no one had when I went at 7 mos.) One thing that made up for the decrease in courtesy in general- the few people who were kind were amazingly so!

Congratulations Ramona!

I usually get a seat on the tram, metro, or bus when it's crowded. Usually it's another women or an old person who gives me their seat. When the older person gives me their seat I feel bad because I think who needs the seat more?
Older people (like over 60) are the nicest about it. Younger guys are the worst. I am definately raising my sons to always give up their seats to a pregnant women!
I do have to say though that 2 younger guys stood up for me at the same time the other day on the metro. I also find that even though being at the end of my 8th month and being really tired I feel uncomfortable getting special treatment. Out of the corner of my eye I see people trying to make eye contact with me to give me their seat. I guess I'm just being hormonal, because I also get pissy when I am standing and noone budges. haha
A few weeks ago I was waddling down the steps into the metro and the train guy that sits in the glass box followed me down to the train and kept asking me if I was ok. I had to insist I was fine like 4 or 5 times. Too funny. I must have looked really weird.
www.anythingbutdull.blogspot.com

I also have to add that the security guy at my local esselunga always gets on my case because I never use the express/pregnancy checkout line. It doesn't matter that I tell him every time I see him that that line usually has the longest wait time!
www.anythingbutdull.blogspot.com

There´s an express pregnancy checkout line at your supermarket????

That´s a new one.

There's one at Esselunga in Arezzo. I'm contemplating bunging on a frock and stuffing a pillow up my front.