in that line tho, you are supposed to be able to go ahead of everyone else who is already in line. However the only time that I have done that was when I was a week over due and I just had like 4 things to get and there were 2 people ahead of me and both with carts full of stuff. Hubby I dont think was too happy about my pushing thru like that but he understood that that I had the right to do this, and he also knew better then to argue with me that week lol.
I use the buses in florence alot and the one thing I really find strange is that people stand up to let my 3 year old sit down! If the people are elderly they pick her up and sit her on their knee! The buses are lethal though, we have flown from one end of the bus to the other several times. I think it is really sweet, especially as I know this would never happen in the UK - there kids are expected to stand while the adults sit down or sit on an adults knee.
I've only been pregnant in the UK. I actually turfed a young lad out of his seat on the tube - it was either that or throw up on him !
Originally posted by suefischio: C in Bo makes a good point about the difference in locality making a difference in the UK. London is not England, for example, and in some areas you'd be hard pushed to find locals: it's something foreign students of English complain about! The capital's mass transit systems are so busy that they aren't conducive to relaxed conversation.
The last time I was in Southampton and talked to someone spontaneously at a bus stop they turned out to be Polish (I think!) and didn't have a word of English. By and large though I think it is just the English respecting people's personal space, not wanting to seem nosey, and not a lack of friendliness. Like JHelm I think this ski season it has always been me that started any lift conversation so I take after my Mum who does it in bus queues.:-)
I have to agree, London is not one of the friendliest places on earth maybe due to people being in such a rush to get somewhere and minding their own business. I have worked down there many times and was stared at, tutted at etc etc when I had the gall to have a conversation on the tube! As you say, London is not England/UK and you will find that outside of London people have more time for you. I know from living in Glasgow that you can strike up a conversation with almost anyone in a queue in a shop/bus stop/train station/airport and you will not get any funny looks and have a great conversation with a complete stranger without being treated as a weirdo! I met a very good friend through standing in the queue in front of her for the toilets at an Oasis concert! If you go on a bus in Glasgow, someone will speak to you, sometimes you don't want them to (I always get the ones that smell of urine or alcohol) but you'll never be lonely! You will always get someone stand up for you if you are elderly, pregnant, a woman if you are on public transport and people will hold doors open for you also. Of course everywhere there are exceptions and you get the odd rude person that doesn't have manners (they tend to be young people) but that is rare.
When I'm on the bus in Capri you rarely see people get up to let an elderly/pregnant person sit down. I am incredibly vocal about it because it is shameful, they have obviously been brought up with no manners. The amount of times I have seen women struggling with babies in prams trying to get up a big flight of stairs at the marina and noone (except OH and me) have offered to help carry the pram. I find this strange in Italy as it is a very family orientated country but maybe younger people are growing up without these values and think only of themselves these days.
I use the buses in florence alot and the one thing I really find strange is that people stand up to let my 3 year old sit down! If the people are elderly they pick her up and sit her on their knee!
I've noticed that little kids seem to have priority over adults on buses too. Surely it's less tiring on little kids to stand than it is for adults. The right-to-have-a-seat order should be: 1. Old/pregnant 2. Adults 3. Kids 4. Dogs/bags - I've seen people take up a seat with a bag and you have to ASK them to move their bag so you can sit down.
Originally posted by Delina: The right-to-have-a-seat order should be: 1. Old/pregnant 2. Adults 3. Kids 4. Dogs/bags - I've seen people take up a seat with a bag and you have to ASK them to move their bag so you can sit down.
Ha ha ha the bag thing is so true. People are mortally offended if you ask them to put their bag/s on *gasp* the floor! One time when i was on a rather full aliscafi from the aeolian islands a full scale fight just about broke out as someone wanted a seat occupied by bags and moved them into lockers wihtout the owners permission. ALso in english classes peopel get very annoyed if their 'bag chair' needs to be used by a newcomer to class.
Re having a baby stroller, i have to say that i have NEVER been assisted going up/ down stairs etc by any member of the public, even when i am obviously struggling, although people will stop to comment how cute the baby is....
Originally posted by professoressavanessa: Re having a baby stroller, i have to say that i have NEVER been assisted going up/ down stairs etc by any member of the public, even when i am obviously struggling, although people will stop to comment how cute the baby is....
I know I shouldn't laugh, but that is hysterical! I can just imagine it, pretty unbelievable though!
As I say, Antonia is given seats on the bus, has doors opened for her, etc. etc. BUT when she was in a pram it was like she didn't exist - I remember struggling to get into a shop someone had just exited without helping with the door. If anything people were quite hostile where the pram was concerned, which made me hostile back! A few people in Florence have broken toes and the inability to have children because they expected me, with a bloody pram, to get out of their way!
Delina, I would agree about the priority except for the fact Antonia has gone flying down the bus and ended up on her face on the few occasions she hasn't been given a seat. Florentine buses seem to have an inbuilt "jerk" which means even the slightest movement at low speed is dangerous, as the handrails are quite thick she can't hold on tightly enough, so even with me holding her she can go flying - I end up strangling her with her coat! I find the buses strange though as the seats are few and seem to be designed for standing. I have missed my stop through people standing around the exit doors several stops before they need to and not moving!
Reminds me of buses in Siena, where drivers had apparently attended the Bob Newhart school of bus driving (you need to get hold of a copy to fully appreciate the reference) and a ride in one was akin to a bout in a tumble dryer.
Posts: 948 | Location (City & State): From Lille to Torino | Registered: 12 January 2008
My (Italian) boyfriend just got back from a trip to London...he wouldn't stop going on and on about how friendly and chatty people are there! He loved it there! I guess being from Canada that is pretty normal to me...I am going to London for a week in March and can't wait!I have never been there
You can meet some really friendly people in London, but I'd say you have just as good a chance of meeting someone too busy to give you the time of day, and as mentioned before, no talking on the tube! Last time I was in London there was a classic "teenager" singing along to some hard rap music in the tube which he had on his earphones. It was so funny - to me. I thought someone *has* to comment here or smile, but NOTHING - everyone sat there with straight faces acting like the rap hopeful didn't exist.
The place I've been with the most friendly people is Edinburgh. People there are sooooo friendly and nice - much more so than in London or Italy (in my experience )
I'd have to say I have found no real difference beteen the politeness and friendliness of people here, and people in my hometown. If I smile and speak, then people are friendly, if I don't, then why should they? Here. I think that part of the reason we tend to say 'Salve' or the equivalent, when entering a shop, is because the shops where I am are so small! It would be rude not to acknowledge the one person standing in the shop! Whereas, going into a big supermarket, no one would expect you to run round greeting everyone. Where I live here is one-fifth the size of my hometown in the UK, and whereas there are few 'foreigners' here, 140 different languages were spoken in my hometown. I find it difficult being a foreigner here, since I find people are not as patient with me whilst I sort out a decent reply in Italian! In my hometown, people were used to trying different ways of making themselves understood, because for so many, English was not a first language. It means I am always asking people to repeat themselves, or to speak slowly, which makes me self-conscious...do they think I am a total thicko, or just a bit deaf? OH tells me not to worry, as his relatives are more worried about not being able to speak any English, than I am about speaking wobbly Italian! I do agree about the lack of awareness here for others, though...too many car doors opening on my legs, and doors slammed in face! When I keep a door open for someone, I get a very surprised look, and a ' Grazie!', maybe they think I'm going to rob them! The fact that it isn't taken for granted is very nice, though. I find that politeness here is appreciated, which doesn't always happen in the UK, where people expect it as a right.
Just to comment on the title of the post, "Politeness"
While it is normal to say "salve" when entering a shop, I've noticed that on the buses, I'm the only person I've seen give up a seat for an elderly person. To me, offering the seat is the "polite" thing to do and is much more meaningful than saying "good morning" in a store.
I also wait my turn in line at the supermarket and, if a new line opens, I instinctively allow people who were waiting before me to go first. I have not seen anyone do this here (on the contrary, I almost always see what to me looks like "every man for himself" behavior in just about every "waiting situation"). Again, waiting your turn is something I find to be "meaningfully polite".
In general, I think the moral of the story is that there are different ways to be polite in different cultures and sometimes I'm horrified that things I see as unbearably rude are "normal behavior" while people probably think I'm rude because I'm shy to say "buongiorno" when I enter a store.
Posts: 27 | Location (City & State): Bologna, BO | Registered: 07 March 2008
I use the buses in florence alot and the one thing I really find strange is that people stand up to let my 3 year old sit down! If the people are elderly they pick her up and sit her on their knee!
I've noticed that little kids seem to have priority over adults on buses too. Surely it's less tiring on little kids to stand than it is for adults. The right-to-have-a-seat order should be: 1. Old/pregnant 2. Adults 3. Kids 4. Dogs/bags - I've seen people take up a seat with a bag and you have to ASK them to move their bag so you can sit down.
Ugh- I shouldn't even take up the bus thing, but it's a huge pet peeve for me. My boyfriend's father is English and has lived in Italy for 30 years, so we frequently talk about these things. When I pointed out the elderly vs. little kids thing and said that these young people should treat the elderly as they would want their own grandparents treated he pointed out to me that they ARE! He said, from his observations over the years, children are basically taught that their elderly relatives will ALWAYS give up what they have for them, whether it be a seat, food, whatever! So, it doesn't even occur to the young people to give up their seat to an elderly person.
It's sad to me, but all I can do is teach my children the opposite one day and hope it sticks.
On the subject of the bags on the seats-grrrr. Even if there's somewhere else to sit, I ALWAYS make these people move their bags and sit right next to them because it's so incredibly rude and anti-social to do this! I mean, it's one thing if someone is unusually loaded with stuff, but when it's a purse or backpack- grrrr.
Posts: 27 | Location (City & State): Bologna, BO | Registered: 07 March 2008
To report back on the people giving up their seats on the Rome metro for a pregnant woman (ie. me) politeness test- now that I"m 25 weeks along and no one could not notice my pancia. I have to say the results are mixed. I'd say people give up their seats for me about half the time. So far I've only had one man (who looked Bangladeshi/Pakistani/Indian) give up his seat for me spontaneously (ie without me asking) but multiple young women have given up their seats for me. Sometimes if my back is really hurting I just ask someone if I can have their seat (usually a youngish man). So far almost all of these men have got up for me when I asked them to although some of them are a bit grudging - apart from one guy the other day actually said "no" and just stared at my stomach as if I was the one being rude (BTW- I wasn't wearing a coat and the pancia was very obvious). I was flabbergasted. But then the nice woman next to him got up for me instead...
Re: children on buses. I think it depends on the size of the child! My three year old would get literally trampled on on the floor - plus everyone's bags and umbrellas are at his head height. There is no way that I would let him stand on a really crowded bus as it is too dangerous as people don't realise he's there. Plus the fact that little children are not so good at standing up on a bus - they lack the balancing skills. When they are a bit bigger I think it is different.
So far almost all of these men have got up for me when I asked them to although some of them are a bit grudging - apart from one guy the other day actually said "no" and just stared at my stomach as if I was the one being rude (BTW- I wasn't wearing a coat and the pancia was very obvious). I was flabbergasted. But then the nice woman next to him got up for me instead...
Especially the young people are very selfish, their philosophy is the "me before". It all depends on how kids are raised by their parents and the value of respect for others they have and have been tought, especially for older people, disabled, pregnant women, young kids. Here in Vancouver I had many negative experiences on public transit and I have to say that the only ones giving up their seat were older men, asian and south asian. I was 40 weeks pregnant (not the first incident) going to my gyn riding the bus, standing up; the bus was full of University's students, so fairly young, and my stomach was very big, so very noticable (since I was carrying a 10.4 lbs baby!): the ride was pretty bumpy and they all pretended to read and look somewhere else to avoid my sight. Lately I'm not polite with those that don't give their seat when they have to, like the last time when I was with my 4 years old and she had to stand and all these teenagers seating pretending to read. I said out loud, when she was asking me to seat "if somebody give you their seat..." only an older middle east man got up. Very sad.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: nostalgia,
My experience through two pregnancies in Rome in the last four years has always been positive. Someone (usually more than one person at a time) always offered a seat to me. The same when I used the bus with my small children.
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Non ci posso credere - ok, actually I can.