My fiance keeps telling me how different things will be for me, moving from Michigan to Rome. I have told him that I understand that, but it is impossible for me to truly appreciate it until I am living there. But he keeps bringing this up. Is he is scared I will truly regret my move, and on some level blame him for my supposed unhappiness that maybe he is thinking will happen? Or is he just being overly cautious? I don't see how I can ever imagine the changes I will go thru unless I am living the life in Rome. And I have told him that if people never take a leap because of all the possible problems that will crop up, people would never get anywhere in there lives. Or am I just being a romantic and not realistic, as he tells me that I am being? He sees the USA as being a place where people have everything all the time. He has no idea......

Hi Jane, so you are a Michigander? Are you keeping warm these days????? BRRRRR!! My daughter lives in Florence now. She does have her days where she wants to jump in front of a bus, but then she has great days too. It is different. You just have to go with an open mind, it isn't like here that's for sure. She misses our conveniences..... 24 hr stores, drive-thru banks, post office (just for mail).

Did you meet your boyfriend in Italy?

Jane,
Well obviously there is no way you will know how you feel until you get here. What I can tell you is to leave any idea of 'I have experience in X so I should be able to find a great job in my field...' at the border, and it will save you a lot of frustration and heartache. Things don't work like that here. Often experience counts for very little here (it's more important who you know and what your connections are than how much knowledge or experience you have) and keep in mind that salaries are very low. The standard salary hovers around 1,000 Euros a month whether you drive a tram or have six degrees and years of experience. I think it's all about mindset - if you come here thinking things will be like in the U.S., you will be greatly disappointed and frustrated. If you look on my blog, I speak a lot about working here. I'm not sure how much of it is relevant to your field in particular but I do know that working here is one of the hardest things here for many expats.
Michelle

P.S. I would also say to try to make this move about YOU in some way (if possible). When you move for another person, unfortunately, you often do end up blaming that person if things don't go smoothly.

P.P.S. I was also responding here to your post on another thread about putting your work experience to use in Rome. Kind of answering two questions in one...

I don't think it's possible to over-estimate how different life will be between Michigan and Rome (in both "good" and "bad" ways), so perhaps he's just being cautious. You're right that you can't possibly imagine all of the differences until you get here (and won't fully understand them for a long time after you do arrive), but it probably does help to start thinking about them as early as possible. Spend a few hours reading older threads here on Expats. You can start to get a sense of some of the issues that will or could come up, including some of the deeper cultural differences you'll be facing.

Many of us have managed the adjustment to life in Italy pretty well (though there are always new challenges to deal with) and frankly others have not. It just depends on your situation, your attitude & adaptiblity, your fiance's attitude, and a million other things. Best of luck in making the move. You're already off to a good start by finding this site.

No one knows whether they'll like a new situation until they've actually been in ti for a whle, but there are a few things you can do in advance to help ensure a smooth transition.

First of all, do you speak Italian? If not, start studying! If you're already studying, go for the intensive lessons! Being really fluent in Italian will allow you to meet more people and to fully participate in the conversations.

Read some of the expat blogs to get an idea of the unexpected problems others encountered. Altho you may encounter completey different problems, at least you'll know to expect the unexpected.

You might even consider starting your own blog, just as a way to vent, and to document this big change in your life! As an added bonus,it may one day help someone else who's making the transition!

Find out what, if any, options there are for you to work in Italy. As a spouse you'll have an eaiser time than some, but it will still be hard...jobs in Italy aren't that easy to find...and often pay poorly.

Once you arrive in Italy, get out there and meet people! If you'll be working, that's one way of meeting people, but if not, find a gym, join a dance class, just make some friends so that you don't feel so dependent on your fiance for everything.

Finally, try to relax and think that love does indeed conquer all! While that saying might not be true all the time, it could very well be true for you, so think postively!

Is your fiance from Rome?

Anyway, I agree completely with what mschoen said above- the most difficult thing for many expats, especially those who are invested in their careers in some way, is the work situation here. For me, this has been by far the biggest source of culture shock. Forget earning a decent salary and previous experience being respected. As mschoen said, the attitude is completely different here and (to answer your question in the other thread) years of experience will count for nothing unless you find a job with a non-Italian employer (and even multinational companies are "Italian" when they operate in Italy). So be prepared to teach English or do some other kind of work at least when you first get here. Maybe after a year or two you might make enough contacts and learn enough Italian that you can get some kind of other job. But as mschoen said - you probably won't get paid much.

I don't want to be a trouble maker, but have you considered the reasons he is so negative about you moving to Rome. Perhaps he prefers things as they are. I have known a couple of women back in California who had these Italian boyfriends who really just liked the idea of an American girl coming to visit now and then.

It's a big move so just condsider everything, that's all I'm saying. As another said move to Italy because you want to at least try living here.

Also not to be a trouble maker - but is there a specific reason why you are moving to Rome - and he is not moving to Michigan? Just asking as it sounds like you have a good job in the US in a field which really does not exist here. With the job situation being so dire here it might make more sense for him to move to the US. I also think that his willingness to move to the US would show that he is really committed (and understands the implications) to marrying an American.

Hiii!

On more of a positive note...I came here (to Milan) 3 years ago. I am originally from Kansas City, graduated and took a great job in Houston for a couple years.

I had a few reasons for coming here, primarily for my boyfriend (who was not my boyfriend 6 1/2 years ago when we met). The other, I studied International Business and Marketing and knew I wanted to be abroad someday. I did not really expect to be here as long as I have been, but...! Third, my father's father is Italian, so the curiosity has been there.

The only thing I suggest is not come over here with rose-colored glasses on. Italy is amazing, beautiful and full of life. But living here, whether its for 5 months, 5 years or a lifetime, it is not always a whistful 2-week romantic, unbelieveable escape to the tuscan hills, or the venetian waters.

I worked abroad previously in Serbia while at University and had travelled a lot through Europe in between. Plain and simple, life is just different outside of your comfort zone.

Like some of the others explained above...good and bad. Pros and Cons to everything! If you are used to things happening quick, and if convenience is a major issue for you, you could have a harder time at getting adjusted. BUT its not impossible, believe me!!

If you are open-minded, adapt well to change, build up a little bit of patiece...YOU WILL BE JUST FINE!!

remember, things happen for a reason in the end (well, others may not agree, but i do!).

In my opinion, whatever you feel, whatever you dream, give it a go. Try it...be brave and dont think twice. If you never try it, you will never experience a life other than what you have always known.

Not sure about your fiance, but if you feel strongly later on about moving back to the States, it is always an option!!

PS. salaries are indeed much lower, that was hard for me to get used to. But in my opinion, it is all about sacrifices, and doing something you want to do.

Write me if you want to kristinabono@msn.com I would love to give you more advice and chat or whatever!

Hope I wasnt too much. I do not want to scare you at all...I hope to hear positives, and that you are happy and excited to be on your way here to the Eternal City!!

Ciao ciao,
Kri

Is your fia

Also, don't forget that the hardest part will be the first months. For about one year you are likely to feel lost. Yet, if you get work out how the new country works after some time you will not feel as lost. I am not saying that you will stop noticing the differences or that you will see that life is better "here" over "there" (wherever here and there may be) or that you will stop noticing the shortcomes of the country you will be living in. But you will also start to see the half-full part of the glass. Some conveniences will be lost, and are likely to be lost forever. You will have to adapt to a new schedule because the environment you will be moving into will have a different schedule. If you are flexible enough, though, you will be able to find a new balance and start moving in stride. This is probably very important: do not try stubbornly to do everything like you used to. In some aspects you will be able to bend Italy to work like home, yet in some other aspects you will be forced to adopt new ways just in order to be proficient at living in Italy.

Good points Alice. I agree

One other thing Jane...I studied 0 Italian. I knew nothing, although I studied French. I tried to fit in a crash-course for a couple weeks before I came at the Italian Institute in Houston, but really just ended up paying lots of money...I had perhaps a better knowledge of the language but could really only say Ciao, cappuccino and buona notte!!

Now...much much better!! I think having a passion to do it makes a lot of difference. I taught english for awhile here as well, which may have helped a bit too.

ciao, kri

Jane, My OH did the same thing. He kept warning me about how it would be different. I can't tell you why your fiance is saying the same things, I can only tell you about my experience. Mine did it because he wanted me to be ready for the difference. He was afraid I would be unhappy here and wanted me to be sure I was making the right move. As much as he wanted me to come, he also didn't want me to be unhappy. And yes, they often have an unrealistic idea of what life is like in the US. But then again, it is very different and you will go through some adjusting. When you need some advice or "pick-me-up", just come to the board here.

I personally cannot emphasize enough how important it is to go ready to make a life of your own. As someone else emphasized (I don't remember who), make sure that you don't surround your life around your significant other. Believe me, if this happens, it's a fast track to resentment towards that person. Also, if you live your life there for yourself, it will make your relationship that much richer and it will also be that much easier to see if living in Italy really is what you want.

I was given a GREAT suggestion by my therapist when I lived there the first year(unfortunately, I didn't follow it though now I wish I had). Give yourself a time frame before leaving. Let's say a year, just as an example. If by the end of a year, you are not happy(now that doesn't mean that you won't still be going through culture shock, though. You can be happy and still be going through culture shock at the same time.), then high-tale it out of there. Or atleast come up with another strategy if you decide that you want to still stick it out and things aren't quite going as planned.

Hope that helps. It's just a small piece of what I learned.

Thank you so much, all, for all your words of wisdom. My fiance lives in Rome, but is from Calabria. He insists that he is excited by my moving to Italy and us getting married. He just wants me to realize the differences. I have a very open mind about things. I have no problem meeting people and am very friendly. Originally, we were thinking he would move to Michigan, as he has an MBA and can make at least three times what he is making in Italy, although he is successful by Italian standards. But, when push came to shove, he says he can't leave his parents. He is an only child. His parents still live in Calabria, which is a six hour drive from Rome. I met them in November the last time I was there. And he feels that the American way of life is not the life for him. I believe I am ready for a change. I am burnt out at my current job. I have been there for 17 years, and there is a lot of stress. I feel that I am embarking on a new chapter of my life. And my sister and brother-in-law are planning on retiring to Italy, my brother-in-law is Italian/American. So eventually, my sister will be in the same country. I realize things won't always be smooth sailing in Italy, but I am optimistic.

I should have also mentioned that my fiance, Giorgio, by the way, mentioned to me about teaching English. Once I learn Italian, I thought that might be one avenue to go down. It might be nice to get a job in healthcare, as I have experience, but then again, I am open to just about anything. I know the salaries are low in Italy compared to America, so I am prepared for this. Unfortunately, my fiance see's America and American's thru rose colored glasses. His favorite show is Frasier. I told him that I hoped he realized that Frasier is a doctor with an excellent salary, living in a very posh apartment. Most American's don't live like that. Most American's don't live like they do in the movies they show in Italy, or like the celebrities. And most American's don't carry guns, as he and his contemporaries seem to think. I had to dispel several myths he has about America and American's.

Oh, and one more add on, LOL. I did ask Giorgio if the reason he was so cautious was that he didn't really want me to be in Italy with him. He insisted that it wasn't that at all, and he is excited about my moving to Italy. I asked him to be honest with me, and he said he was being honest about it. "My honey bunny is moving to Italy" is what he keeps saying.

quote:

"My honey bunny is moving to Italy" is what he keeps saying.

I think this discussion has been good for you and it looks to me like you will be ready for the move with your eyes wide open. My best wishes for your success, ya gotta love the "honey bunny" part.

quote:

"...as he has an MBA and can make at least three times what he is making in Italy, although he is successful by Italian standards. But, when push came to shove, he says he can't leave his parents".

And there lies the crux of the problem for practically everyone who has ever considered ‘jumping ship’….and what is in fact now actually facing you.

So, IMHO – in a nutshell this is ‘where it’s at’…..

First consideration HAS to be:
If I go there can I survive financially?

The second consideration:
Can I leave everyone I love here – to maybe never see them again?

From these two basics you go on to the (often considered unimportant) other little things. Like:

* But I really do love him/her.
Well here consider that as fast as love can blossom – it can also wither.
Apply: First consideration.

* Of course I’ll ‘fit in’.
Well you may indeed; and if you don’t, and you have no ‘family or friends to give you that longed for hug?
Apply: Second consideration

* I can learn the language – easy!
But how long will it take you to become reasonably proficient?
Apply: First consideration.

* Culture change - schmulture change. NO problema!
No – it’s not. Until you find that it can affect your every waking moment.
Apply: Second consideration.

Plus a million and one other problems and ‘variations on a theme’.

I would hazard a guess that there is NOT ONE 'expat' here who has not faced all these problems at some time or another.

The first and the worst will have been (for them) and for every other ‘hopeful, that moment you have said your very last goodbye back home and you walk through that departure gate ALONE!
THEN it will dawn on you what you are really, really doing. And you will cry!

Now if you can get over that first ‘I’m all alone’ shock and go on, often with considerable difficulties over the following three, maybe four years – then you WILL HAVE WON!!!

You will be a fully paid up expatriate - and there are rather a lot of us who have survived you know…..

Carole B - your words of wisdom (I guess you've "been there, done that") really made me laugh in recognition. It's true - I think all of us expats have been through this (or at least those of us who moved here for love).

Jane W - sounds like you're open to having a different career here in Italy and earning waaaay less. That is a really good thing as finding a job in your field will be difficult/impossible here and there is always demand for English teaching.

As Carole B said though- don't underestimate the isolation and culture shock you'll experience in the first year or so though. I am also a very friendly outgoing person IN ENGLISH but until my Italian got/gets up to speed I am not the same outgoing person in Italian that I was in English. It's just different communicating in a language which is not your own and it can be very isolating. Even now with pretty decent Italian I haven't made many Italian female friends (although I have a few male friends through my boyfriend).

I am not worried about leaving family. Of the original six in my immediate family, I only have a sister still living. Both my parents have passed, and I have a sister and brother that passed. My sister that is still living is 51 years old, married, with two children and one grandchild. She has her life. It is time for me to find my life. And I don't really have a circle of friends I hang out with. So I am not afraid or worried about leaving anyone behind. My sister and brother-in-law will be retiring to Italy at some point, so she will be there at some time.

quote:

But, when push came to shove, he says he can't leave his parents. He is an only child.

This to me says a lot about your future relationship. You need to be prepared for the fact that, should you decide that Italy is not for you, you will be returning to the States on your own. The family pull is so strong. I count myself as so lucky that my DH left Italy for the UK at 18 so cut the apron strings totally. We go back every 2 weeks (to our own house), but voluntarily, not because of any feelings of guilt towards his parents. Helps too that he has 2 other brothers who of course have not - and would never want to, nor be able to - fly the family nest.

We are friends with an Italian couple currently living in London, but from DH's area in Italy. He is an only son and is already feeling the pull and pressure to return home. Aided by the fact that the parents have gone and bought him a house there, as one does. The girlfriend moved to London to be with him, has found the job of her dreams, and is now facing an uncertain future because he is deciding whether or not to return home. Her employers (Italian) will not give her a permanent job because they know her partner may return home so assume that she, too, will do so. Very unfair.

I can't stress to you enough to learn Italian asap. It may not help you fit in (I for one believe I will never truly fit in down there) but it will help you adapt to your new way of life much better. Also be prepared for the eventual return to Calabria. If your OH's parents are getting on in age and he is an only child, then at some point Rome will be too far and he will want to be back home. Big difference between Rome and Calabria.