jhelm - If I had anything to do with it we'd be up that aisle but he says he's already been married and doesn't want the same disaster to happen again! He says if I could learn to shut my mouth he would marry me in a minute so I think I have a long wait ahead of me!
Originally posted by Ragazza scozzese: jhelm - If I had anything to do with it we'd be up that aisle but he says he's already been married and doesn't want the same disaster to happen again! He says if I could learn to shut my mouth he would marry me in a minute so I think I have a long wait ahead of me!
As long as you are happy and getting everything out of the relationship that you need and want, that's all that counts.
Do Italians think that life in America is like the American TV shows they see? That everyone lives in a huge house and has no money worries, like Desperate Housewives?
I ask because a friend told me that she had heard a discussion on TV that Muslims think we live like John Wayne and the old west and all of us carry guns.
Posts: 406 | Location (City & State): Pennsylvania/Sicily in 2009 | Registered: 04 November 2005
Cristina - sounds like both you and your husband have jobs rather than own businesses. To answer your question - OH's business is why I'm there (though I'm currently visiting my home country, Australia.) Anyway, it goes without saying that everyone has a right to speak their mind about whatever they feel like speaking their mind about - and that includes criticising the country in which they live. This is especially true on a website such as this one directed at expats in that country. I have no problem with foreigners criticising Australia especially if they live there and therefore understand what they're talking about - why should an Italian have any problem if I criticise Italy?
Being back in Oz has been a bit of an eye opener for both of us. We'll see what we decide to do in the future.
Obviously, every country has its drawbacks- the big one here in Oz is distance from the rest of the world - but for most of us there are certain drawbacks we can live with and certain others we can't. Doesn't that go without saying?
I ask because a friend told me that she had heard a discussion on TV that Muslims think we live like John Wayne and the old west and all of us carry guns.
Ramona, we work in a family business that has clients around the world. In fact,by coincidence, I will be going to Australia in March for work. We do work hard for a living. Thats the life of a "Brianzolo". We are both educated in school and life. We've seen a great many things. We've seen both higher living standards and substandard living. As previously posted, "the grass is always greener on the other side." A person should be content with who they are--first. For us world travelers, I believe home becomes a second thought. The grass can be green right outside your door...wherever you are (but then again....where i live, i'm scared to walk on the grass since no one will pick up their dog's crap!). However, with these northern grey Lombardy winters that last forever, the green gets somewhat dulled out to me. Sometimes a guy has to vent... If Italy elects another "Prodi" or another pirla, well then, you bet you will find me venting here more often!
Ciao, Gil
Posts: 10 | Location (City & State): Monza - Milano | Registered: 22 January 2008
Personally Jhelm I have never thought that I would get married and I am an Italian woman. My husband (american) wanted to get married. I have italian friends and relatives too that live together without being married and have kids and both are ok with that. I experimented the opposite thing... when in CA I had the feeling that Americans (the ones I met at least) are much PRO-marriage and find wrong living together if you are not legally bonded... Even if many of them were at their 2nd, 3rd marriage, were cheating or had a s**tty one! Isn't that "funny" (not to say hypocrit")?
Posts: 10 | Location (City & State): Monza - Milano | Registered: 22 January 2008
I am Italian and I do know that one thing is movies and another one is the real life. Some Italians might not know that because they are old or do not travel much. I think that the young generation travel enough to know how things really are. Once again, when in CA I was asked if I was a "real" Italian because I am blond with blue eyes (they told me I looked Finnish!), some were wondering if we have baths inside our houses, others were asking me how I make mozzarella or grow olives... LOL... Like if they pictured all Italians as peasants milking cows and driving a vespa every day! I believe this is because US citizens have no many days off work when young and so they do not travel alot. Old American guys that have money, are retired and travel know alot more about the rest of the world.
Posts: 10 | Location (City & State): Monza - Milano | Registered: 22 January 2008
To me one thing is criticise something in a constructive way and "nicely", another is whimpering and talking like if EVERY Italian is in a certain way and nothing works. I do not see any point in doing that. You just sound childish and negative and the logical reaction of someone hearing that crying is wondering "why you keep on staying here then?" To me, many of this posts sounded like "Why do ITALIANS cross the street?". Just my opinion.
Posts: 10 | Location (City & State): Monza - Milano | Registered: 22 January 2008
You also have the remember the saying "Be careful of what you wish for." Obviously living here and visiting here are two very different things, but surely if someone has invested alot in moving over here, either permanently or as another adventure in their life and it doesn't turn out how they expected until they can change things or decide what to do, surely they should be allowed somewhere to talk freely about how they feel?
As others have said this board is primarily for Expats - think of it if you like as a telephone call between friends of similar backgrounds in different countries. You are going to tell the positive stuff, sure, but when you are in pain you are going to talk about that too. Also many people won't necessarily feel the need to come on here unless they need help or a shoulder to cry on. What you are trying to do is stop them having that option. Life isn't all great. I have great times here but I also have crap times here and being on my own most of the time, and perhaps not wanting to share face-to-face it's nice to be able to come somewhere anonomously and have a vent. If you want I can tell you all the crap things about the UK, would that make you feel happier?
Surely, though, in a forum which is designed for people to put forward their honest opinions, if someone wants to criticise the way Italians cross the street - then it is their right to do so, no? Whether or not the criticism is fair or unfair, justified or unjusitified, deserved or not - it remains the valid opinion of the person who puts it forward (in my opinion!). I am not always negative in what I say about Italy, but if something's bothering me, I personally like to share it with other people who might feel the same way. Isn't that the idea of a forum?
I came here for work and because I’ve always eaten well and grew up with both sets of grandparents living with us, I wasn’t really looking for that aspect of Italian life. That said, a friend of mine who works in San Giovanni hospital was recently telling me about many of the old people there who pretend to be asleep during visiting hours as they’ve basically been abandoned by their families, but that’s an issue on stereotypes for another day! I live in Rome where the streets are filthy, the walls full of graffiti, etc. and to say that these things don’t exist or are not bothersome in my opinion is not negative, but rather seeing reality for what it is. As I believe that you must be part of the solution and not the problem, I am constantly writing letters and making phone calls to the companies that should take care of these things. After twenty years of being here and thousands of Euros paid in taxes, I have earned the right to voice my opinion and demand a higher level of service. My Italian friends love the fact that I am so proactive and keep telling me that Italy needs more people to raise their voices. Endless complaining that goes nowhere is obviously ridiculous, but if you need to point out what is not working or is unacceptable in order to make change, then I am all for it!! After all, my life is here and not where I grew up. By the way, I would also demand better services in the countries where I hold citizenship.
Originally posted by Cristina68: Personally Jhelm I have never thought that I would get married and I am an Italian woman. My husband (american) wanted to get married. I have italian friends and relatives too that live together without being married and have kids and both are ok with that. I experimented the opposite thing... when in CA I had the feeling that Americans (the ones I met at least) are much PRO-marriage and find wrong living together if you are not legally bonded... Even if many of them were at their 2nd, 3rd marriage, were cheating or had a s**tty one! Isn't that "funny" (not to say hypocrit")?
I don't have anything against unmarried people living together. I have mixed feelings about those who decide to have children and are not married. But this is just my opinion I don't propose to impose it on anyone else. What I think happens though is that many women come to Italy get involved with an Italian man, fall in love, etc. They probably grew up in a culture where marriage is expected and I think that initiallly at least they would like to marry. Then it turns out that the mammas boy they are in love with is too spoiled and self centered to make a real commitment, so the woman settles. And then she defends her situation to all her friends and relatives by telling them and eventually conviencing herself that she is perfectly happy with this partially committed relationship. In the end it's probably better that way because the man in question would probably end up having an affair or two and eventually leaving the wife.
Just finished ready "An Italian Education" by Tim Parks, he talks alot about how spoiled the children of the generation his kids were in are. I suppose it reinforced my thoughts on the above comments.
Damien, I think it's great that you make a stand and pro-actively strive to change things. I think we should all take on this attitude - at the company I work for, we "stranieri" have earned ourselves a reputation as we are often the only ones that stand up for our rights, demand answers, and basically act as the 'rompi-palle' of the organisation. Sometimes it gets us places, sometimes it doesn't, but at least we make the effort. Unfortunately, whilst many of our Italian colleagues agree with the issues on principal, most are reluctant to make a stand. I think that this is a shame, as they complain as much as we do! I'm curious to know - do you see results from the letters and phone calls that you make to the various companies?
But, but, but.... I didn't think Italians did cross the road, as no-one stops.....
I think Damien and Emmina make interesting points, particularly that Italians do grumble and complain too (in my experience), even if they don't actually do anything about it.
My personal friends here always seem to agree if I have a moan about something, which I have to say is not _too_ often. But I reserve the right to complain as much as I want!
Posts: 728 | Location (City & State): Valle d'Aosta | Registered: 24 November 2005
You bring up an interesting point about Italians complaining but not doing anything about things. I find that to be true myself, but would like to hear from some of the Italians on the board. When I mention that something should be done about x or y, I usually hear, "But, what could we do about it?" Writing letters and complaining to the people that can actually change things seems to be out of the norm. Plus, if it involves an official, a lot of people are afraid to file a complaint because of possible retribution.
As for those of us who weren't born here but choose to live here and do some complaining, I have to admit that I do some myself. But I love being in Italy and I think maybe that's why I do complain. I see things that ruin this beautiful country and make the people miserable and would like to see those things changed.
Damien and MB have brought up good points here. When I'm complaining about Italy, it's more that I see things that could be so much better here. C'mon people...why is there such a crisis in Napoli over trash? How can you just let it sit there on your front doorstep? Are these people mentally ill? Why can't they do something about it? They practically throw out Prodi because they have a trash problem? I had trash piling out in front of my apartment because there was a clothes reclaimation bin. The bright individuals around here thought it was a free trash removal service. They brought the kitchen sink and their couch and set it there on the curb next to the bin. It was gross! Me and my wife wrote to the city and within a month, the recycle bin was gone. I don't feel that anyone has the right to say "but what can I do about it??" It makes me angry. I get pissed off. Y'all can do something about it! Not only one person is going to change the world of course. But a little here...a little there... Italy can be a so much better place to live. now get off your chairs and take the trash out!
Gil (un "rompi palle")
Posts: 10 | Location (City & State): Monza - Milano | Registered: 22 January 2008
Emmina, sometimes I get a response and sometimes I don't, but I feel good that I am doing something. Recently, at Coin I had to deal with a very rude sales clerk, after I left I sent an email to Coin and belive it or not someone called to apologize!!! They even said that there is a "regalo" waiting for me at Coin in S. Giovanni. I haven't had time to pick it up, but man was I impressed. I've always believed that action creates attraction, so making calls and writing letters is the way to go!
Originally posted by Cristina68: Damien and MB have brought up good points here. When I'm complaining about Italy, it's more that I see things that could be so much better here. C'mon people...why is there such a crisis in Napoli over trash? How can you just let it sit there on your front doorstep? Are these people mentally ill? Why can't they do something about it? They practically throw out Prodi because they have a trash problem? I had trash piling out in front of my apartment because there was a clothes reclaimation bin. The bright individuals around here thought it was a free trash removal service. They brought the kitchen sink and their couch and set it there on the curb next to the bin. It was gross! Me and my wife wrote to the city and within a month, the recycle bin was gone. I don't feel that anyone has the right to say "but what can I do about it??" It makes me angry. I get pissed off. Y'all can do something about it! Not only one person is going to change the world of course. But a little here...a little there... Italy can be a so much better place to live. now get off your chairs and take the trash out!
Gil (un "rompi palle")
Bravo! Now, if we could just get more people who were willing to make their voices heard.....
Like you said, Italy can be a much better place to live.
Cristina - I agree with you that Americans can be very conformist when it comes to marriage. I got pregnant intentionally without being married and some of my most liberal American friends were absolutely shocked by this. To me, it's normal - we're in a stable committed relationship and we're not living in the 50s here. I've had several people IRL lecture me along the lines of what jhelm is saying. They just assume that everyone needs to fit into this little marriage box.
We finally tied the knot last week but <shock, horror> I don't have an engagement ring (rather spend the money on travel or buying an apartment). It never ends.
I think it's great that so many of you are being proactive and trying to do something about the problems you encounter. So - what about our resolution to do something about packages from overseas not turning up or having to pay ridiculous customs duties on gifts???
Dai dai! Let's make a stand against the postal system... If Damien can get an apology and a FREE GIFT from Coin, I am willing to believe in anything...!!
Expats in Italy Forum 