I moved to Italy a few months ago with my Italian boyfriend, we have moved back so he could be closer to his family and now I have to deal with the whole Italian family thing. I'm trying hard to get on with everyone but my Italian is still at the basic level so I can't get the 'real me' accross. At the moment I don't seem to do anything right in their eyes!!

Maybe I'm being oversensitive at the moment what with being away from family and friends and going through a massive culture shock of language, country, complete change in job.

Can anyone tell me if it gets better over time!! Or am I fighting a losing battle as I'm never going to win over the in-laws??

Well, I can't really comment from personal experience - but do they dislike you (you say you can't do anything right in their eyes) or is it just that you feel left out because of language issues?

If they dislike you because you are foreign or for another reason you might have a bit of an uphill battle on your hands.

Emma, I really feel for you. I've been with my Italian partner for 9 years now, living in Scotland but a few months of the year in Italy and I still feel like a stranger with some of his family. I think it's the language barrier that is the real problem. You can't get involved in the conversations they have to a full extent so you just sit there not contributing anything and feel a bit stupid. My personality completely changed over there as I became more quiet and withdrawn due to not being able to speak to anyone without struggling to understand each other. Another thing I noticed is that if you are a girlfriend and not a wife they don't seem to take you seriously or have the same respect. Maybe you have to get a ring on your finger before they will totally accept you, I don't know, but I think it just takes time in Italy for people to get to know you and know your real personality.

Give it some time, I'm getting there slowly and the more I grasp the language, the better it gets. I have been so lazy in learning the language as I find it difficult going back and forward, one minute speaking English then over there picking up a bit of Italian then back here again and hearing very little Italian so each time I go over I have to start again!

I know what you mean about never being able to do anything right. Many of the older relatives will be stuck in their ways and someone comes over who dresses differently, doesn't speak the language and you are an outsider. Just give them time to get used to you and hopefully your boyfriend is giving you his full support and realises how you feel. Don't isolate yourself, you are in Milan and there should be a great deal of English speaking people living there that you could maybe meet up with and that might help you with the homesickness. I know that my first question when I came on these boards was related to the homesickness and how would I cope with no English speaking friends. Of course learning the language is a must but sometimes you just want someone to speak to that totally understands you without any effort. Good luck and hope you will be ok. I am coming over tomorrow (to Capri though) for 5 weeks and I am already getting a bit weepy about leaving my family and my dog! Keep your chin up, it will get better.

Give it a little time Emma. It may be a case of being a little hypersensitive. I know I was at first too. Plus, it's another culture so it's easy to misunderstand certain things and think people are criticizing or thinking badly about you when they're not. It's a hard adjustment and even harder when you don't speak the language well. Do you and your boyfriend speak English or Italian together? If you only speak English, start speaking Italian with him so that you pick it up faster.

Try not to get too discouraged. This phase will pass.

I can't comment on your family, essentially because, like anywhere else, families come in all kind of shapes and colors in Italy. It is true that many families are still deeply traditional and closed to new things, like unwed couples or "foreign" partners (this includes partners from other parts of Italy too!). There is a saying that goes "mogli e buoi dei paesi tuoi", wives and cattle from your own country. Yet, not all families are like that, to the poin that personally I didn't know about this reality until I fell hadlong into the arms of my ex's family! (Which is one of the main reasons he's my ex for.)

One suggestion I can give you is to learn Italian as best as you can and use it anytime you can. Have your partner teach you words and phrases, buy self-study books, enroll in lessons and courses (starting from September there will be cheap ones run by the local adminstration), read newspapers (the free press is excellent for learning purposes because the articles are really short), watch TV, maybe with subtitles (lots of TV shows and in particular movies, are subtitled in Italian for the hearing impaired).

Also, I really hope that you are not living with your in-laws, that you ahve a place for your own. In-laws, especially in very traditional families, can be extremely intruding into your life. I had the opposite battle to keep them off the private life of my partner and me, and lost. Don't forget that they are not your family, they are your partner's family, so keep at large as much as possible.

I too think that you need to give it time. People often have trouble getting along with the in laws, especially at the beginning. Remember all those MIL jokes - I think it was Les Dawson who did the most.

Do you live with your in laws?

No not living with them, I think that may have been a step too far for me, although they are only round the corner so close enough.

I'm trying on the Italian but it isn't coming easy. I do tend to speak to my boyfriend in English and I know it is better to speak in Italian but by te time he gets home from work I just want to be able to talk to someone normally.

I'll look into the courses in September though, I did one about a year ago and since then been doing self teaching at home. I think confidence is half my battle, especially with speaking.
In London I always thought of myself as really confident, had good job in the city, travelled all over, never worried about anything, suddenlly I'm here and I think you are right not being able to communicate normally really takes it out of you.

It's not all bad though and am having some fun too! Don't want to sound too down

One thing to remeber is that languages are not innate, they are something you learn. You were born not knowing English and you learned it, now all you need is to learn a new langauge. In between, you also learned lots of other stuff: there was a time when you didn't know how to use a computer, or to drive, now you can do all of these things.
Also, try to get new Italian friends, or at least acquaintances. Consider what are your interests and look for groups meeting up for the same interests. If you have a passion for cooking, sign up for cooking lessons somewhere where Italians go too, for instance. Again, this is ahrder now, since in summer most things shut down, but in September try to join up with Italians too.
And don't forget that to learn better you need to be daring and never refrain from speaking just because you are not sure about the langauge. Your first goal is to communicate, and you can communicate in broken Italian too. Don't be afraid of using words or to build aphazard phrases: they will grow better with times, right now you need to make me message go through!
Finally, again concentrate on your interests or on thye thing you know better and read on these subjects: they will be easier to understand and will still give you a better feel for the langauge.

So, what are your interests?

Emma,

What you are experiencing is quite normal and at the risk of overusing the expression - you are experiencing culture shock. Not being able to speak coherently and eloquently to people is a major set back for human beings, especially when you have been used to being independent and living your life as you please. If you are planning on living in Italy indefinitely, I would suggest the following:

1. Start learning Italian in a way that won’t overwhelm you. Start watching soaps (e.g. The Bold and The Beautiful – Canale 5 circa 13.40 each day). The language is simple and predictable and vital for everyday survival.
2. Make a plan of what you want to do here. Do you want to work? Study? Stay home? Etc. Basically here is where you have to decide what your “purpose” will be in Italy and back this up with lots of constructive action.
3. Meet up with other expatriates and eliminate the ones that are only negative about their experience in Italy. (Some complaining is inevitable, but if it’s too much it could cause you to start pining for your life in London – this won’t help!)
4. Be open with your partner about the challenges your facing without making it a whine or a complaining session. Even though you are going through difficulties, your partner won’t want to come home to a nag. Couple life is about helping each other and complaining in any circumstances only exacerbates the problem.

Life when you move to another country can certainly be a daunting and challenging experience, but I believe that if you follow the right formula you can make it a very rewarding experience.

Damien O’Farrell
www.damienofarrell.com

I know what you mean about the "Real you" Emma. I have been told by bilingual Italians that have spent alot of time with me that I "have a different personality when I speak Italian." HUH!!!???? Supposedly in English, I am a strong, confident, to the point and funny woman. In Italian, I am timid, shy, and somewhat boring! (well, I added boring.) After having it pointed out to me, I have paid very close attention and I realized they are right! In Italian, I just don't have the confidence to crack jokes or to explain myself in a manner that flows and is to the point. For that reason, I stay out of a lot conversations that I might have strong opinions on. I am trying to crack that, especially since my move date is just around the corner. But the scary thought is, I am fluent enough to convince people that I've lived there for many years. Obviously the problem is psychological!
Fortunately, the family likes me. But I am worried that they like the "Italian" personality and when they find out who I really I am, maybe they won't like me so much...I guess time will tell.
My advice to you, is to of course do what you can to learn the language. The people in this thread have given you some good ideas. But secondly, just be yourself.

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Another thing I noticed is that if you are a girlfriend and not a wife they don't seem to take you seriously or have the same respect. Maybe you have to get a ring on your finger before they will totally accept you

I didn't find this at all, so remember, like Alice said, all families are different.

I also agree with what MB said--what you take as criticism/not doing things right may not really be as bad as you think. People communicate in different ways, so try to take such things with a grain of salt.

Just try to be patient while following Damien's excellent advice. It's not an easy transition and settling in takes time.

My personal warning: Don't try to bend too much, though, to suit your in-laws. If you do, you risk losing who you really are, and then you'll be in a worse position because you'll be confused about you on top of everything else. Be polite, of course, but stand your ground on the things that are important to you as well--remember you're setting up things now for a hopefully wonderful life together. If you don't like the way your suocera says you should do something now (as an example), be honest now--and don't let it turn into something big as the animosity bubbles inside of you. Your partner's family needs to respect you as well.

Having a supportive partner is also key. I'm very lucky in that my OH has flat out told his mamma to butt out on the very few times she's made small comments to me--it's a relief not to have to handle it on my own.

In bocca al lupo

I agree, every family is different. Most of my partners family have been lovely, just the odd couple who are not so welcoming but after a while they get better. The girlfriend/wife thing is something I have experienced with not only the family but friends of his but again when they see you are in it for the long run they change. The first few years were hard though. If you think of it, they may look at it in the way of "this is his current girlfriend but he may have a different one next year so why should we make the effort" (he was an absolute womaniser so no wonder!). Also, Capri is a small island, it's like living in a village where everyone knows your comings and goings and there is so much gossip you wouldn't believe. I think in the city may be better. My partners friend from Sorrento has bought a house in Puglia and he is thinking of selling up now as he said it's worse down there with regard to strangers, women on their own and his Scottish wife does not feel comfortable being there on her own. That may be because Puglia is just now getting used to foreign ownership of property like a lot of the South and they are still a bit wary of outsiders. Mrs Calabrese may come on and put me right though!

It is so true that it is a complete culture shock and things you would do, say or wear in the UK can be totally unacceptable in certain areas of Italy, more so in small villages, islands etc but you get used to it and adapt to their way of life. I love it in Italy, things do get you down but I couldn't think of a better place to settle down.

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f you think of it, they may look at it in the way of "this is his current girlfriend but he may have a different one next year so why should we make the effort" (he was an absolute womaniser so no wonder!).

Well that makes sense then. My OH definitely wasn't. His mom was talking about a wedding and babies within a month, all while handing me linens and dishes

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Also, Capri is a small island, it's like living in a village where everyone knows your comings and goings and there is so much gossip you wouldn't believe.

Oh, I'd believe it. I'm in a village of 350 souls where just about everyone is related (even me if you go back 100 years or so)

Btw, Ragazza Scozzese, welcome to the board--you've brought a lot of life here in the past few days

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My partners friend from Sorrento has bought a house in Puglia and he is thinking of selling up now as he said it's worse down there with regard to strangers, women on their own and his Scottish wife does not feel comfortable being there on her own. That may be because Puglia is just now getting used to foreign ownership of property like a lot of the South and they are still a bit wary of outsiders. Mrs Calabrese may come on and put me right though!

Sadly your friend is right. I don't feel comfortable in Puglia, and sadly don't think I ever will. I go there because it's where my husband is from, and when the time comes to move there I will, but I will find it hard. My husband met an Irish guy this weekend at his golf club, who is married to a Leccese woman. He has only been there 5 years and already has had enough.

Alice gave good advice about in-laws. Mine are incredibly intrusive and they expect to have a say in every aspect of our lives. Keys to our house, coming round when they feel like it, telling me how I should dress (the MIL is obsessed with the bella figura) and expecting to see us every day. In 2 years I have only used our kitchen 5 times to cook lunch. It's hard work and I feel like I have no independence. This however I think is an extreme version and I would hope that other families are not so intrusive.

Learning Italian will help immensely and should hopefully endear you more to them. I had terrible trouble with my MIL at the start and have now just learned to stay silent rather than say what I think and risk arguments. Like Amber said, I am not myself in Italy - I am a shadow of myself. Not only do I have to filter everything from English into Italian, I also have to filter out any comments that I know would invite trouble. Particular in OH's family, they are not used to independent-minded women who can say what they like and act without the permission of the family. So now I just nod and keep my thoughts to myself.

I realise that it sounds like I am not happy in Italy - and that is probably so. I do think however that mine is a rather extreme situation and not everyone has to deal with a family like my OH's.

Dear folks, Italian mothers-in-law are second only to Jewish mothers-in-law in causing trouble, and rest assured that they are often a problem even when there are no language difficulties around.

The easiest way to cope with them is putting some distance between (say, you live in Milan and they live in Rome). A second, but difficult, way to cope is reclaiming some personal space not to be invaded, and being ready to be misunderstood - do not take it on the personal side and stay cool. The third way is, simply, getting used to it and making them work in all the unpleasant chores to do in house like washing and pressing the clothes.

I wonder if a foreign wife (or husband) has an added resource against Italian mothers-in-law, i.e. pretend not understanding what they say (even if you understand it even too much) and doing as you like. You understand this trick cannot be used by an Italian, but I wonder if it would work

This is the back side of being in a society where most families feel united; in order to form a new family you have to break some of the older bonds, and this will likely cause some suffering (but probably will earn you a healthier family life in the long term). Or you renounce, and try to live as a part of an extended family. It will take you some years to reclaim some power, but in the end you will be a mother-in-law, too...

Thank you Testa Dura. I hope I haven't annoyed you all with my long winded stories - why say 2 words when 200 will do! My partner says he would marry me if I could keep my mouth shut - well I'll be waiting a long time to get down that aisle then! He also has another nice saying for me "every time you open your mouth, you fart" hmmm not literally though!

Your village of 350 souls, do they all look like each other? I've found a few strange people in Capri supposedly not related but I think there has been a bit of inter-breeding going on somewhere (my partners sister married her uncle!!) - keeping it in the family has a different meaning there obviously.

Mrs Calabrese, that is such a shame you have to go through all that with the in-laws. I don't think I could cope with that popping in every day as you can't relax in your own home. My partner wouldn't stand for that thankfully as he eloquently puts it "If I want to sit in my underwear and scratch my arse then it's nobodys business" now you couldn't do that with guests could you?! We were suffering from over exposure to them in May though when they thought he had won the lottery so that gave me a taste of what you are talking about. I also hate when someone turns up unexpectedly he wants to show them around the house and it always happens to be when I haven't cleaned yet and I've got to run around the house before them picking up pants he's left on the floor!

I don't get told how to dress but I do get comments about my weight "oh you're so thin, do you never eat?" Yes, I feel like saying, but you lot stress me out so much the weight drops off, but I don't say that obviously, I smile and laugh but it's hurtful, like someone saying you are so fat. I too am a shadow of myself in Italy and don't think I will ever be myself. What I laugh and joke about in the UK I could never do there. I am really quiet and quite reserved when out in public so feel like a bit of a non personality, bland. The way I have spoken on these boards is the way I am, talk talk talk but you would not recognise me in Italy. My partner makes up for it though, he is extremely loud, life and soul of the party when he's in the mood and I sit like some mouse beside him (can't get a word in for him).

I really hope things get better for you Mrs Calabrese. Maybe in a few years things will change down there and they will be accustomed to foreigners, other than that, could you move away from that area or would that be a mortal sin in the in-laws eyes?

Can I just add, I've had a ball on this board, it's a fantastic read with some lovely people on it. I leave tomorrow am. so won't have internet access though I'll have the laptop for my photos so I will miss all the chat for 5 weeks! I will be back beginning of August with all guns blazing with the latest news from the beautiful island of Capri like how many times the big pants were hung out to annoy us, what the neighbours are currently fighting about and how many interbred strange people I come across. Still haven't worked out what I'm wearing to my first Italian wedding next week, there will be tears (not for the bride, for me).

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Originally posted by itarchivarius:
Dear folks, Italian mothers-in-law are second only to Jewish mothers-in-law in causing trouble, and rest assured that they are often a problem even when there are no language difficulties around.

The easiest way to cope with them is putting some distance between (say, you live in Milan and they live in Rome).

Mine's Irish Catholic - sometimes 9000 miles isn't enough!!

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Your village of 350 souls, do they all look like each other?

Hah! Well since most actually *are* related, there are some resemblances, but I've never actually mistaken someone for someone else--I tend to be good with faces though.

Names are another story for me, especially difficult here because there are the same ones repeated over and over, and that has tripped me up a few times (then I just try not to use the name in conversation).

Of course on the bright side, I have a good shot at getting a guy's name correct if I call him Antonio (Toto, Totò, Tonino), Pasquale, Domenico (Mimmo, Mico), Vincenzo (Enzo), or Francesco (even if his nickname is something different, at least I was close!).

All in the fun of adapting to another culture

quote:

Originally posted by itarchivarius:
I wonder if a foreign wife (or husband) has an added resource against Italian mothers-in-law, i.e. pretend not understanding what they say (even if you understand it even too much) and doing as you like. You understand this trick cannot be used by an Italian, but I wonder if it would work

Yes, it works. Now, I've never used it on my suocera who is really a great person, very respectful and not nosy or bossy at all. Dh's aunt is another matter, however. It helps that she speaks in a strange mixture of dialect and her own invented words, delivered in a truly bizarre accent, that even my husband (and everyone else in the family) has a fairly difficult time getting to the bottom of what she's saying. If anyone can get away with using this tactic, I highly recommend it, because often the results are quite comical and good for a laugh!

I haven't had to feign not understanding as a tactic, I just didn't understand. My suocera (80 years old) and most of her neighbors speak in dialect. I now understand most of them except for the one old guy down the street who has no teeth, but even my OH doesn't understand him.

My suocera is great, not intrusive or anything. She's happy because her son is happy and that's enough for her. No fears of not being accepted either even though we're not married. She hinted around about it for a while, but I guess she gave up on that now and moved on to other things. Although her hints are like hitting you in the head with a hammer. For a few months she's been bugging my OH to go up in the attic and get the package she made for him which includes hand-crocheted baby blankets. It's gotten to the point where whenever we go visit and she's crocheting something my OH asks if it's a "copertina".

I really am incredibly lucky though, she's a doll. But, at the beginning I thought she didn't like me because I misunderstood some of the things she said and did. It's so easy to misconstrue things.