Question:
I discovered recently that some folks are paying much less (like one tenth as much) than others for their ICI. I'm unable to figure it out. So here's an Anonymous poll, just click on your annual amount. Maybe an answer will fall out of the data. I'll go first:

Choices:
Less than 100 euro annualy
Between 100 and 500 euro annually
between 500 and 1000 euro annually
betwenn 1000 and 2000 euro annually
more than 2000 euro annually

 

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bill 2,

mani, I think you need to adjust the poll to include higher numbers (like 5-6x what you have here). I pay €931 for an abitazione A/7 with a valore catastale of about €150,000 (includes 1-car garage and small greenhouse in back).

I don't know what rough percentage of the market value the valore catastale usually is. I know that (in a completely backwards fashion) the "valore" catastale is calculated from the "rendita" catastale (not vice versa, and NOT in a linear fashion, either).

Something that kind of explains the "rendita" is here.

And something that explains the valore/rendita calculations is here at the bottom. Too tired to translate it right now, but if someone asks I will attempt it.

edited to add: Hey, you said you were going first, but I only see my vote. What's your yearly bill / valore? (not to be rude, but.. you did ask.. )

quote:

Originally posted by ladelfina:
mani, I think you need to adjust the poll to include higher numbers (like 5-6x what you have here). I pay €931 for an abitazione A/7 with a valore catastale of about €150,000 (includes 1-car garage and small greenhouse in back).

I don't know what rough percentage of the market value the valore catastale usually is. I know that (in a completely backwards fashion) the "valore" catastale is calculated from the "rendita" catastale (not vice versa, and NOT in a linear fashion, either).

Something that kind of explains the "rendita" is here.

And something that explains the valore/rendita calculations is here at the bottom. Too tired to translate it right now, but if someone asks I will attempt it.

edited to add: Hey, you said you were going first, but I only see my vote. What's your yearly bill / valore? (not to be rude, but.. you did ask.. )

I voted on the poll for over 200 (actually 234 euro). But after I've updated the ICI ranges, it won't let me vote again. You're right, I'll increase the ICI ranges.
Thanks Delfina!
Bill

ICI can be very cheap or expensive if you have a home in a city center. I know many people who have had errors made when calulating the cost. I think, what we need is not how much we pay in ICI but what our rendita catastale is since that is the base for the calculations. So for example, I have a 160 sq. meter house, two small gardens in the country, 11 km. from the city center. My rendita is €560 and I pay €155.60 in total (my husband and I, full year payemnt). I know people here in my village who live in houses twice the size but the houses are much older (200/300/400 years old) and they pay nothing because the deduction is more than the amount due.

We used to live in a new place in the comune of Monteroni. We had 52 sq. meter condo (we now have a toenhouse) and we paid more than we pay now as our rendita was €600 and the percentage was higher (area value).

My house is old and in a tiny town, declared cost 115 million lira in 1996, has an rendita catastale of 867,65 euro. For this the ICI is 234 euro total annually, including my wife's half.

I'm trying to understand why some folks pay tiny amounts (less than 10 euro annually) in houses which aren't under restoration and have been fairly recently purchased. Who knows?

Just talked a bit to my DIH (dear Italian husband) and he explained it to me sorta like this:

The characteristics on which the rendita castastale are based are determined by "lo Stato" and so in theory should be the same all over Italy.

Each comune then has latitude to apply a tax rate (5/1000, 7/1000, etc.) taking into consideration a combination of 1.) the characteristics for rendita catastale purposes: number of vani, terrazzi, and so on, as touched on by Carole B. and 2.) the more generic classifications of A/1, A/7, C2...

The comune is limited (by what rules or entity or custom we know not) to a certain range of rates; there won't be a comune that charges 2/1000 or 17/1000. But the comune does apply different rates to different categories. In one town it's conceivable that they apply a 5/1000 rate on a storefront and 7/1000 on a house; in another town it might be the other way round and they could charge the storefront a higher rate.

At least that's how I now understand it. DH says that age is unlikely to have anything to do with it, but if a countryside casale retains its categorization as "agricolo" then the rates and the rendita go waaayyy down.

Guida per la casa

It's in Italian but covers things like the ICI plus the other thread on VAT for renos. It's last years document but nothing has been posted on the website for this year.

You'll find stated in the document posted by Nick the following:

Acquisto di immobile in corso di
costruzione o di ristrutturazione
Le agevolazioni prima casa si applicano
anche all'acquisto di fabbricati in corso di
costruzione o allo stato rustico, nonché a
quelli in corso di ristrutturazione.

Purchase of a property actally under construction or restructuring.
The benefits of the purchase of a first house are applicable also to buildings being built or to any rustic building, not only to those actually undergoing restructuring

Carole B.

Mine's my principle house- I imagine most people on the board also pay the 4/1000 quota.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bill 2,

Mani, do you really only pay 4/1000? That is looow!

Ours is 5.7/1000 for our house, a "prima casa"; otherwise it would be 6.5/1000 and no 'detrazione'. So we are paying 40% more than where you are... (not sure for what.. it's a small town and they are not all that swift about things like paving streets and such). They are all communists, though -- the town council has a majority and a minority: the majority is DS and the minority is Rifondazione. There is no 'opposition'. When they "debate", they actually are all in agreement and so they end up arguing about arcane rules of order or methods of composing a committee, just to have something to do!

There is a national database here, so you can see what the aliquote are in any town in Italy: ANCI/CNC

That's good news! Aviano always seemed expensive- now I know better!

I pay 4% and our old house we used to pay 5.5% (7 for non prima casa)

ladelfina, I just looked at yours and although you have a hhigher aliquota, your detrazione is higher than most (129 euro instead of 103 euro).

Aviano comes through again! 130 Euro detrazione.
I'll never complain about taxes again!

After living with the 'evil' Community Tax (ex margaret Thatcher Poll Tax) in England - it's a dream here....
There your house is in a grading system from 'A' - small to (maybe) 'H' - a palace. Everyone who lives in the house of 'working age' must pay thier own 'quota'. As a single pensioner I was given a 25% reduction on my bill... but even with that - in 2003 my MONTHLY bill was £78 = €113.
So if the grading raised a cost of say £1500pa. and there were husband, wife and one adult child at work, their annual bill would be £4500!!!

My son lives in a city just south of London, in a small victorian terrace house - three floors, two bedrooms and a small garden out back. The front face onto the road. His Community Tax (English equivalent of ICI) is £154 = €230 per month...

So despite some things costing more here in Italy on the whole I am better off here and my pension does go further!

Carole B.

Wow! Carole B., thanks for opening our eyes!

Thanks, Cristina. I didn't know that the 'detrazioni' changed as well. I don't have a problem with paying the ICI, even though mine is higher than most. It's still a lot less than I paid in Boston, for a home of similar value (though obviously the level of city services are vastly different).