I am getting totally cheesed off with many Italian’s seeming ongoing inability to queue! Despite having been here for some time – it still rankles when I politely wait my turn only to be overtaken by someone who is travelling like the proverbial ‘bat out of hell’ past each and every other person in whatever queue there is.

Even the ‘numbered ticket’ system is often nothing more than a cover up for picking up a ‘used’ ticket then saying ‘Sorry! I didn’t see my number had come up already’…. I bet you’ve all seen that one.

Now some Italians will indeed voice their disgust at such manners (or lack of them) – but so many still don’t! They studiously avoid eye contact with anybody, and if you make a comment about the ‘pushy one’ they just smile and give you their version of the ‘Gallic Shrug’. In other words ‘Beh – purtroppo e cosi’ – Yeah right - well not in MY book. Not any more!

I’m afraid that I gave up my ‘Oh well – never mind. I’m not in a hurry’ approach some time ago. My response now – often applauded by other mugs in the queue in question – is to walk up to the offender, tap them on the shoulder and say quite loudly:

“If you let me know where you live, I’ll let you know when my funeral is. You will be more than welcome to take my place in my coffin as you clearly feel it is your right to push in front of me”.

You would be surprised how many (still red faced) will retreat to the back of the queue. And why shouldn’t they? Common courtesy should dictate that it’s not he who has the sharpest elbows who should be served first – but he who arrived first!

Italians just don't like to be behind anyone. Of course on the road they will always pass even to go slower than you are. But I've also noticed they can't stand walking behind anyone either. They seem to always speed up their pace to pass.

On one of our ski trips where it was very crowded people even pushed in front of me getting on the gondola cutting me off from my wife and kids. But in this case most of them were Germans rather than Italian, so I guess it's not just an Italian problem. I was mad about it all day.

quote:

“If you let me know where you live, I’ll let you know when my funeral is. You will be more than welcome to take my place in my coffin as you clearly feel it is your right to push in front of me”.

quote:

Originally posted by Carole B.:
“If you let me know where you live, I’ll let you know when my funeral is. You will be more than welcome to take my place in my coffin as you clearly feel it is your right to push in front of me”.

Pesante!!!

I don't know, I must be missing something. In our wee post office, everyone queued patiently. They brought in the numbered ticket system. Everyone takes a ticket and queues patiently.

Wow, it sucks that it happens to you so often.

So far, I've been pretty lucky myself, that when this does happen to me in Milan, the shopkeeper or other people in the queue are quick to tell off the queue-jumper. I have to learn to stick up for myself; how would I say those words in Italian?

quote:

Originally posted by Graeme:
I don't know, I must be missing something. In our wee post office, everyone queued patiently. They brought in the numbered ticket system. Everyone takes a ticket and queues patiently.

In our poste we don't even have the numbers and no one jumps the queue. Maybe this is a regional thing.

In spite of my earlier post I too rarely see this here in Belluno. At our local post office they have numbers and chairs to sit in while you wait. People seem pretty pleasant about it. And I've noticed that at coffee bars and stores where people don't que up the people working there have a pretty good eye for who was there first.

Then there are the times like at Christmas when I was waiting with several others to be waited on when this older guy came marching in went right to the proprietor and was served immediately. I stood in is way when he wanted to leave, so he had to work his way around me, wanted to trip him.

The other day in the supermarket I witnessed a real bravado performance. While the cashier was ringing up my purchase, a woman walked into the aisle through the opposite end and put her stuff on the counter in the space that had just been made when the cashier rang up my stuff. She didn't even acknowledge the presence of the woman who was originally behind me on line. I was amazed, mostly because it would never have even occurred to me to do such a thing. I mean, it was just so creative.

There is an awful lot of cutting in down here, even when numbers are taken, for example, there's always some little old guy who will walk up to any sportello in the post office and demand to be served regardless of whether the clerk has already begun a transaction with the person whose number has been called. I think such behavior is very disrespectful, but it happens so often around here that it isn't conducive to either my happiness or my sanity to get angry about it everytime it happens. That's not to say that the really egregious examples don't get to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Carole B.:
Common courtesy ...

Who said that the problem with "common courtesy" is that it isn't very common ?

I had the same thing happen to me this morning at the bar where I get my first coffee of the day. Normally everyone queues patiently (not normal in a bar, I know, but this one is on the US military base with mostly American customers), but there's always that one guy who's just too cool to wait (and who knows the barista). I almost said something, but knew it would have been a waste of breath. As it happens, I recognized the guy and just kept saying to myself "I may not be as cool as you, but at least I don't have to spend my day cleaning toilets (which is his job)" .

I tend to not get mad (anymore) at the places where it's kind of difficult to form a line, such as at the pizza-by-the-slice place at 1 p.m. or at the gelateria when it's 40 degrees outside. There I tend to expect everyone to crowd ahead and try to elbow his or her way in, and I just try to go with it. Where I do get mad is where someone BLATANTLY walks ahead of me in even a loosely formed line as if I didn't exist. This happened to me at the supermarket once where a man actually tried to cut - cart and all - in front of my cart. I used my usual 'Scusi ma c'ero prima IO' (Fistfulofpixels, this is a good phrase to just memorize) and he turned the tables on me as if I were the psycho of the situation with 'Well, I'm not really sure who got here first but if you say you were here, by all means, go ahead...' This kind of offender (who is nervy enough to cut and slick enough to make you the bad guy) really makes me angry, but by now I know how to defend myself. It just depends on whether I'm in the mood for fighting or not. I'm not above squashing someone with my cart.
Michelle

The other method is to march right up in front of the person cutting in front of you (basically cutting in front of the line cutter) or stay elbow to elbow with him/her letting him know you are on the the game and making him feel uncomfortable - or better - ashamed (though I doubt they feel any remorse or shame or they wouldn't do it...). But again, you've got to be in the mood for passive - or outright - aggression. I tend to let elderly line cutters just get away with it. I'm not going to go elbow-to-elbow with a granny.
Michelle

Milano sounds a horrible place!

Here in Friuli I've had several people with a full cart offer me to go in front of them if I only had a few items. People are usually quite kind.

Hi,

as always, I think it's a matter of episodes and personal experiences. Though in the big cities people tend to be more careless of others'needs.

Chia

Bill2,
I heard people in Fruili were a bunch of pansies. Time is money Bill
My favorite "line" has now become a worldwide problem from what I've seen. I'm talking about the line/rugby scrum that involves boarding an airplane. I can't wait to see 500+ people try to board Airbus 380 with no one waiting for their section or rows to be called.

It's funny I thought this was a huge problem when I first arrived. I dreaded try to get a place at the bar for a caffe or fighting some grannies at the beakery to get some bread but now it seems normal.
By the way, go to the post office, get a number then go get a caffe or something and come back after your number has come up! That's not technically cutting!

Jeffo

quote:

Originally posted by Bill 2:
Milano sounds a horrible place!

Here in Friuli I've had several people with a full cart offer me to go in front of them if I only had a few items. People are usually quite kind.

That happens in Milano too!

Lori

Is this phenomenom an Italian thing or a European thing!?! When it happens to us it REALLY PI**ES me and and wife off. My solution is to just get 'big' and step right back in front of the offender and push uncomfortably back against them. Last week I had some 'Brits' in town for a meeting and they were saying how in London it is survival of the strongest when it comes to getting on buses, trains, etc. instead of letting people that arrived at the stop get on first like it was a couple years ago. I always thought 'Brits' were prim and proper, but last weekend in Venice, the 'Brits' were the biggest offenders of the bunch when trying to get on water buses and then shoving their way around the bus to take pictures....so is this common all over Europe? If so, it really gives the impression of an uneducated and uncivilized society....if I ever experience the "I did not see my number was called" I will definetely call "BULLS**T!!"

I don't think it's nationality based (obviously not ALL Italians cut in line but a few bad apple repeat offenders give many a bad name) but it could be a big city vs. small town type of thing though in my experience Brits and Americans tend to actually form lines and Italians often don't. Nonetheless, it is often survival of the fittest in big cities all over the world. A New Yorker will mow you down to shove into the subway (nobody saying "After you, sir..." here) or if you are blocking his way on the sidewalk. But I think that's frenetic city life in general.
Michelle

Well, London isn't Britain - it's a law unto itself, and also full of people from all over the world, whether resident or tourist, so normal rules don't apply.

I must admit it hasn't been bad here where I live. A few days ago when I went skiing an Italian guy actually had words in the lift queue with a northern European lass (wasn't sure of the accent), although as it happened she was only moving forward to pick her pack up from the corner.

If need be I can hold my own - not a rugby player myself but I picked up some useful scrummaging techniques in the University Students' Union crush bar many many years ago!

A lot of this is just crowd behavior. The more crowded it gets the more tense people get, throw in the nervousness of being in a strange place and it gets even worse.

And let's not forget that some people are just jerks wherever you go. I'm thinking that in more aggressive populations like the US even the jerks are more restrained because they fear what might happen to them if they crowd in front of the others.

We might think of this as a good part of Italy in that the population being less agressive and more forgiving allows the jerks to get away with more. But in general this attitude creates a better environment all around. Just some thoughts.

What used to happen to me was someone going to the first person in line (I was in line behind that person) and asking: "posso fare prima io? ho solo questo da pagare".
At that point I raised my hand and replied: "mi scusi ma se lei vuole passare prima deve chiedere il permesso a tutto il resto della fila, non solo alla prima persona"...and then added: "io il permesso non glie lo do, faccia la fila come tutti gli altri!".
The usual reply to that was: "che cazzimma!"


Once though, I was patiently waiting in line on base and for a second I stepped on the side of the queue to pick up a flyer displayed on a booth stand, then I went back to my place in the queue. Someone was entering the door in that precise moment and shouted: "line snicker!", I couldn't even reply or explain and he left. I was so upset!


Dora

A couple of days ago I got my share of killer stares when I approached the top of a line just for asking "Do I have to queue here to get my bloot test results?".

I have my queue jumpers technique all worked out. Normally it is some old man that steps right infront of me. I announce in a loud voice "Ma, sono invisibile oggi?" Then I elbow the old man in the ribs and nudge him sideways. Then I say "aah, ma anche sei non mi vedi, mi senti eh?"
Usually at this point I lose my nerve and walk out the shop, but a couple of times I have stood my ground and asked why he stepped in front of me and did he go to school and did he ever learn the word'fila', and how rude and uneducated he is....I have lost my cool so many times in front of so many people because of queue jumpers that most of the locals just accept me for una pazza.