I'm curious about the difference in life styles between France and Italy. We spent a couple of weeks in France this last Summer but did not really get a feeling for the lifestyle. What I did notice was that it seems a bit more like the US, I'm sure the Frence don't want to hear that. But there seem to be a lot of separate single family homes in the countryside, tracks of production housing in the suburbs? Pleanty of McDonalds not attached to other buildings with drive up windows and why we went there, free wifi. I also saw a lot of the typical US style drive to shoping areas with the super market, gas station and verious retail shops.

I am guessing you'd like a little input from me? I lived in France for a total of 10 years, almost 7 of those in Paris, so here goes:

In terms of lifestyle, it's probably true the French seem more American, but that's not from copying, it's just the way they are. Since farming is plenty lucrative, and the peasant class disappeared with the Revolution, there wasn't a big drive to get out of the countryside, hence a lot of viable farming communities. Building permission isn't anything like as strict in France as in Italy: building is if anything encouraged, and children are bumped out asap (there are stay-at-homes, but there are those in the US too). Well, it's a whole lot bigger than Italy, too, so space is not an issue.

The shopping centres and malls are definitely a copy, though, very popular too. MacDo is simultaneously vilified and the most successful fast food outlet in the country. Go figure.

Where the French and Americans part company is on cultural issues and, believe it or not, philosophy. No kidding: philosophy is actually a profession in France. They are also probably among the most formal of the Europeans (now that the UK has given up that rag for good), keeping a distinct distance from everyone they aren't related to or didn't go to kindergarten with. They are potty about their language, and would rather you made a hash of it than find themselves having to speak someone else's language (quel horreur!).

They also have a very suspicious view of too much money, finding outrageous wealth a minus rather than a plus: probably another hangover from the Revolution. Ostentation = Marie Antoinette, and we all know how that one went.

This is an interesting topic for me as I have pretty much divided my time between France and Italy for the past 10 years or so, including about 6 years in France, including 4 in Paris (and 1 in Lille like Filomena!)

As a Brit, I can't comment on how Americanised the French are (although in Paris, Starbucks is very popular!), but I can certainly see differences between there and Italy.

For me, the most striking is welfare. The unemployed in France get a pretty good deal. As long as you have worked, and didn't just quit your job or get fired for gross misconduct, you start on about 80% of your former salary! This then gets gradually reduced, according to the amount of time that you have worked in the first place. You receive support in finding a new job/re-training etc, including free language/IT classes, etc. I know this as I organised the free language lessons for unemployed people, and we would have a situation where the teachers were earning less than their unemployed students! Obviously this has positives and negatives, you would see some people desperate to find a job and others happy to kick back and relax for a bit. In my company, many were hoping to get laid off so that they could benefit from the social security! I would say that here the attitude is "if you have a permanent contract, hang on to it" whereas in France the emphasis is more on finding the job that is right for you.

There are many other benefits, including paternity leave and training. With the new-ish law on training, employees benefit from a DIF (individual right to training) which I think is about 20 hours per year. There is also the Fongecif where you basically take a couple of months out from your job to do a training course, and can even go abroad to learn a language (you would pay for travel/accomodation but your classes would be paid for). I think you can do this on full pay, but your company has to agree to it.
I have an Italian friend who spent 7 years in France and gets very annoyed with her French friends for complaining about their lot, as nothing like this is available in Italy.

I would say that salaries are generally higher in France, but that you have to have done very specific studies to get a job (i.e. if you want to be an executive assistant, you should have done the course to be an executive assistant and not the one to be a bilingual secretary.)So in that respect Italy is a bit more flexible.

Food is obviously high on the agenda in both countries! But I would say that the French are a little more open to foreign cuisine. Maybe that's not fair as I did live in the capital, but I have also lived in Rome and found foreign food much less available. The comments I have heard here are along the lines of "nobody cooks like we do in Emilia Romagna", "I went to London and the pizza was disgusting" etc. Obviously that depends on the individual but when my Italian other half first came to visit me in Paris he said, "wow! It's not true what they say, that the French eat badly!"

Positives about Italy: people are way friendlier (but again, I lived in Paris, so maybe that's not fair!)As a teacher in Imola, I was showered with gifts and invitations. In Paris, it was more about what I could do for them.

Having been here for a little over a year I do still get major Paris withdrawal symptoms but let's face it, both countries are great!

I wonder why you filomena decided it was better to move back to Italy. I can't make judgements about either country. Just mostly curious,I'm sure we will spend more time in France especially with our camper as the years go buy.

It was raining in Paris, my wife said that Italians say that Italians use umbrellas and the French just get wet. It actually seemed somewhat true, and of course Italians think the French are dirty. Though Paris appeared to be one of the cleanest cities I've ever been in. But then it is the pride of France. It's just a bit of fun looking at how they view each other.

John, I lived in Italy from 1969 to 1992, my husband's father was born in Italy (I met my husband in Florence) so it's probably safe to say that I have a real attachment to Italy--I not only grew up here, I watched it develop from an almost third world country--replete with WWII bullet holes still in the walls--to a G8 and still going strong. Let's say I find some things here superior, for instance the natural friendliness of Italians, making it a place I'd want to spend my sunset years, if you will.

France certainly has its strong points, and their attitude to social welfare makes it cushy to say the least. As Kat pointed out, salaries are among the highest in Europe, and being laid off is not the road to perdition by a long chalk. Their food and wine are tops, and not all cream sauces and sulfured wine either (we just had a Sancerre from our stash that we bought in loco two years ago and it knocks the socks off anything you could find here). Having both the Med and the Atlantic from which to pluck anything you can imagine save grouper and red snapper perhaps, a natural terrestrial bounty to die for, a passion for good flavours and voilà! best eating imaginable.

But it just ain't Italy. Probably their respective histories play a huge part in what makes each different from the other--the fact that Italy once owned most of France, who later returned the favour, might influence the way they feel about one another, who knows? Yeah, the Italians find the French filthy and the French find the Italians stupid, so big deal.

If you're going to spend quality time in France, via camper, I can recommend some areas that might not be insanely expensive (Provence in season, Paris anytime of year): Alsace is outtasight. I went last Christmas, and that's the time to go. Next door the the Jura, also interesting. Others: Auvergne, very wild and fascinating with its dead volcanoes. Terrific cheeses. Steer clear of the Dordogne unless you feel the need for an overdose of Brits, shame because it's lovely. But the Loire valley is coming back into its own, and Brittany of course is unbeatable any time.

**Kat: why and where were you in Lille?? I worked for La Catho, kinda miss it, but not the weather.

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Originally posted by filomena:


**Kat: why and where were you in Lille?? I worked for La Catho, kinda miss it, but not the weather.

I worked at Lille 3 university as a lectrice in the English dept from 1999-2000. Lived right in the centre, just outside Vieux Lille. It was lovely-and to be honest the weather for me was pretty normal and the summer was hotter than the UK! I loved the architecture and the Christmas market and big wheel in the square too. Went back there for a weekend a couple of years ago and it was impossible to find a table in a restaurant. Too full of English tourists I think (Dordogne eat your heart out!) Very handy to get home though, a short walk, jump on the train and you're in London

Our trip last Summer took us to the Loire valley to show the kids some castles and then to Paris mostly museums and the coast of Normandy walks along cliffs. Money was an issue so we didn't get to enjoy the restuarants.

I think this kind of conversation is a good one for expats. One of the advantages of living in Italy is it's closeness to so many other places and countires. This is a happy subject too much of what goes on is about negative issues. I'll look forward to asking about good places to visit in France and other countries. One of these days we want to make the trek up to Sweden, Annika how big is your driveway?

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One of these days we want to make the trek up to Sweden, Annika how big is your driveway?

Just don't empty the waste tank into her storm sewer like in Christmas Vacation.