Originally posted by alyson: do you mean "I were.." 'cos if you do, you're right I never hear this in English! Isn't "I was.." what we normally say instead? "You were.." I hear and use all the time.
Yes, you hear "If I was" a lot. Apart from being wrong in the strict grammatical sense, it also sounds awful, I think. The subjunctive "If I were" is much more melodious.
"Were", as in "you were", is also just a plural of "was".
"Be that as it may" is another example of the subjunctive in English that most people don't realise they're using.
I know this is from months ago, I just wanted to comment that though it is true the subjunctive is dying out in English, it is still present [in some forms] in some dialects.
In America, we always say "If I were" and I had never heard "If I was" until a British exchange student came to my high school. Struck me as very wrong and I asked my English teacher next opportunity I had. My English teacher informed me that it was quite common for Britishers to say "If I was" instead of "If I were". Guess this must be true from the conversation I see here.
Posts: 657 | Location (City & State): California | Registered: 17 November 2005
"If I were..." and "If I was..." followed by "then..." are both conditional sentences. You could use "If I am... then..." or "If I will be... then..." as well.
In Italian to form this "if... then..." idea you'd use congiuntivo imperfetto in the main clause and condizionale in the subordinate clause.
Originally posted by alyson: do you mean "I were.." 'cos if you do, you're right I never hear this in English! Isn't "I was.." what we normally say instead? "You were.." I hear and use all the time.
Yes, you hear "If I was" a lot. Apart from being wrong in the strict grammatical sense, it also sounds awful, I think. The subjunctive "If I were" is much more melodious.
"Were", as in "you were", is also just a plural of "was".
"Be that as it may" is another example of the subjunctive in English that most people don't realise they're using.
I know this is from months ago, I just wanted to comment that though it is true the subjunctive is dying out in English, it is still present [in some forms] in some dialects.
In America, we always say "If I were" and I had never heard "If I was" until a British exchange student came to my high school. Struck me as very wrong and I asked my English teacher next opportunity I had. My English teacher informed me that it was quite common for Britishers to say "If I was" instead of "If I were". Guess this must be true from the conversation I see here.
I actually say "I was.." as in "I was thinking about doing...." but if I were to put "if" at the start of the sentence I would use "were" as I just did in fact. I would probably only use "was" in this example: "If I was you" but only in my spoken English not written - spoken it is a British colloquialism, but written, I would be very unlikely to use it, it looks wrong! Also "was" becomes truncated and, in my region of the UK, sounds more like "wuz" in that example!
Actually, English doesn't have a conditional tense the way, say, French and Italian do, which makes for awkward translations at times.
In English, we set up a condition (if...) and depending on to what extent we expect that condition to verify, we supply a result in a grammatical formula. When we're confident of the verification: if it rains (in November in Milano) we have one formula: then we'll...; when we're not sure or quite dubious of the outcome: if I won the lottery this Saturday (yeah, right!) then we have a different formula: I would... . When it's too late for verification: if you hadn't been so..., we have another one still: I wouldn't have said... .
Italian has the tense, basta: use it and you're expressing a condition. A whole lot easier, and if you don't believe that, run "would you mind dropping by my office later" through babelfish and see what you get!
Posts: 957 | Location (City & State): From Lille to Torino | Registered: 12 January 2008
Originally posted by Joan2005: It's interesting...after posting my opinion, I saw Graeme says roughly the same things.
At this point maybe it's too much for Ragazza Scozzese, but I'd like to comment on the learning of passato remoto and subjunctives. People keep saying that they aren't useful or difficult, but from my observation you do see passato remoto sometimes in newspapers and a lot in story books (and it's beautiful in that sense). Regarding subjunctives, a lot of older generation people to whom I speak to while I walk my dog do use them. The same case for formal written comunication. It's useful to know at least the "look" of them for understanding. Otherwise just like what Graeme says.
I have to agree with that. Also, the passato remoto isn't really extinct in the south either.
Posts: 115 | Location (City & State): new york, ny | Registered: 15 June 2008
I come on this forum in order to refresh my English, so if I can do something in exchange, like help some of you with any doubt about the Italian language, please feel free to ask. Cheers.
This posting is from 2007. Are you still learning Italian? How is it going since you posted this? It's been about a year now...
I'm a linguist (I speak 6 languages and studied linguistics) and I have tutored Italian for 10 years now. Let me know if you need some help and I'll tell you what to do...
italianesco@gmail.com
nando
Posts: 2 | Location (City & State): Houston, TX, USA | Registered: 29 September 2008
Also, the passato remoto isn't really extinct in the south either.
My OH is from Bologna but he still uses the passato remoto to talk about things that happened quite a long way back in the past - especially things that happened before we met, which is, of course, ancient history!
I hear the passato remoto sometimes in movies, especially where there is a storytelling kind of vibe, or historical references... and in books a lot too for the same reasons. I had kind of brushed it off in my first year of learning italian and now believe my comprehension suffered a fair amount because of it...
Posts: 241 | Location (City & State): In giro... | Registered: 29 March 2008
Also, the passato remoto isn't really extinct in the south either.
My OH is from Bologna but he still uses the passato remoto to talk about things that happened quite a long way back in the past - especially things that happened before we met, which is, of course, ancient history!
I know what DH means--and I've googled several sites for netlingo to find out what OH means--to no avail. I see it on Expats a lot, and figure it means something about "husband"--what does the "O" mean????
Originally posted by JilM: I think it means other half but I am not to up on the lingo either....I thought DH meant designated hitter....what else does it mean
Mee too.
Posts: 2596 | Location (City & State): Connecticut, USA | Registered: 07 October 2005
Originally posted by JilM: I think it means other half but I am not to up on the lingo either....I thought DH meant designated hitter....what else does it mean
Do you think we may be showing our age a little???
Originally posted by italianesco: This posting is from 2007. Are you still learning Italian? How is it going since you posted this? It's been about a year now...
I'm a linguist (I speak 6 languages and studied linguistics) and I have tutored Italian for 10 years now. Let me know if you need some help and I'll tell you what to do...
italianesco@gmail.com
nando
I'm not doing very well with the studying at the moment unfortunately since I am working a lot and too tired to study. I have had satellite installed at home for the Italian tv channels so when I am at home I have the tv on all the time in the background. I have learned a few more words from the tv but it can be hard to follow when they are speaking at full speed. Only certain programmes have subtitles and I find them easier to follow when I can read the words. I completed the Michel Thomas courses which I really need to go over again as it has been a few months since I listened to them. I was in Capri for 5 weeks in the summer and made a real effort to speak Italian on the beach. I met a couple of elderly women whom I only spoke Italian to and they really helped me but as usual I have returned home and forgotten it all! I find that I am understanding a bit more just by watching tv but I need more than that. I have an excellent dictionary which is always to hand when I'm watching tv. So far, I feel ok with certain verb tenses like present, future, past, conditional but I am still at the stage of translating word for word what people are saying into English which takes some time and also makes it difficult to watch tv because everything moves on so quickly and I'm still translating the first phrase!
I still have the enthusiasm I had at the beginning to learn and am really enjoying watching all the rubbish on RAI, Mediaset, I just wish I had more time to sit down and study properly but perhaps I just need to manage my time better and get more sleep in order to concentrate better!
Ragazza Scozzese - Sounds like you're approaching the pivotal point, as long as you don't give up you'll get over that hump soon enough without even realizing... I found TV helped me a lot too during the transition from translating in your head to understanding the actual italian. If there are any movies that you know really well, that you've seen more then 1 or 2 times... try watching them in italian without any subtitles. Since you know the gist of the scenes you can listen to the italian more naturally and start to absorb and match up the language with the notions being expressed. Worked wonders for me! Good luck!
Posts: 241 | Location (City & State): In giro... | Registered: 29 March 2008
Originally posted by Bill 2: JilM, you've changed your name (to protect the innocent). I did too a couple of years ago. I like it- helps keep us on our toes.
Ragazza Scozzese - I am just beginning to take studying seriously (although I have been in Italy over 18 months now - I suppose I'm a little lazy!). I have signed on for BBC's online learning programmed where they say it's a great idea to have a study partner to bounce ideas off. Let me know if you want to be my study partner. www.bbc.co.uk/languages
Posts: 89 | Location (City & State): Roma | Registered: 23 April 2007
Expats in Italy Forum 
