Hello,

Mi puo dire come si dice "prior marriage" in italiano? "I had a prior marriage."

Mille grazie.

Matrimonio precedente.

To translate your sentence I'd say it's more common to say "sono già stata sposata".

If you've had kids, you can say "ho un figlio da un matrimonio precedente".

quote:

Originally posted by JAPrufrock:
To translate your sentence I'd say it's more common to say "sono già stata sposata".

Technically it would be: "Ero sposata". "Sono" implies more of a current marriage, where as "I had a prior..." would be in the past.

Since JAPrufrock is a native Italian speaker (at least I think so) wouldn't his translation be accurate?

Or is this some sort of regional influence?

but the "stata" implies "was"

sono gia' stata sposata

JAPrufrock has got it right- in that sentence passato prossimo is the correct tense to use.

ShawnG wants to use trapassato prossimo- more for describing an event that occurred before another event in the past.

Going out on a limb here because Italian grammar really isn't my best game, but....

Sono già stata maritata would translate literally as I have been married before. Ero stata maritata would translate to I was married [before]. To me, as a non-native English speaker, the first sounds more correct, and thus the Italian sono stata.. sounds more correct too.

Although,....... let's see if I get this right. If you were to say "I was married a long time ago (but then my husband left me)" you would say "ero sposata", but to say "this is not my first marriage, I have already been married twice" you would use "sono stata maritata".
I don't think you would use "have been" in the first sentence in English, right? I guess you *could*, depending on context and how you say it, but it's not the natural choice. Right?

Have been is present perfect and it's used in English to indicate something that started in the past but is still the case today:

"I have been married for 10 years" means you got married 10 years ago and are still married.

"I was married" means you no longer are, at least to the person you consider your ex.

BUT the pres perf can also refer to part of your life experience:

"I have been married before" would indicate you are married now but to someone other than a previous marriage, ie, this isn't your first time.

The passato prossimo is used differently in that sometimes you can translate it as present perfect, but other times it has to be translated as past simple. It's structural similarity causes confusion, but it is not at all the same verb.

Prufrock got it right, though: that "già" clinches it.

quote:

If you were to say "I was married a long time ago (but then my husband left me)" you would say "ero sposata"

Right, trapassato prossimo indicates the action (I was married) occurred before another past action (my husband left).

quote:

Originally posted by Annika:

Sono già stata maritata would translate literally as I have been married before.

Nobody uses the verb maritare anymore, especially the past participle "maritato/a".
I veeery old fashioned.
Stick with "sposare/sposato".

@Tiffany: I am not a big fan of literal translation for informal conversation.
If you use the equation past tense = passato remoto you will sound odd to a native because passato remoto is less and less used.

For example, what in English is "I went to the US last year", "I had gone to the US 3 yrs ago", "I have been in the US for 3 year", "I had been in the US for 3 months this summer" in Italian - IMHO - can always be translated with "sono stato...."
on order:
sono stato negli USA l'anno scorso
Sono stato negli USA 3 anni fa
Sono stato negli USA per 3 anni
sono stato negli USA per 3 mesi questa estate

Nobody says "andai negli USA 3 anni fa" when chatting. However you can find it in a book or a newspaper.

OK you know what, I'm gonna just digress and go back into my corner. I've been tired and had too much going on lately trying to get ready to return to Italy. For whatever dumb reason the "stata" in that post did not even compute in my head.
Yes JAPrufrock was correct!

I'll just shut up now.

My Italian is so rudimentary! I really welcome this kind of discussion about nuances. Perhaps some context will help. I've studied Italian almost entirely on my own, and rarely get the chance to use it.

I am trying to fill out one of the forms required by the Italian Consulate in Los Angeles for jure sanguinis citizenship. I thought it would be a nice touch to fill it out in Italian, especially since the linguistic demands are fairly light. Mostly this involves using words such as "settembre" instead of "September". Of course, it's notoriously difficult to ask unambiguous questions on a form, and I got to the part where it asked "Married (YES/NO)" and responded "Si". The next item on the form asks "Divorced (YES/NO"). I thought that question was ambiguous -- do they want to know whether he is divorced from his most recent spouse (in which case that's me and the answer is no), or whether he has ever been divorced? I thought an appropriate way to answer (in English) would be "Yes -- I had a prior marriage". That would indicate that there is a divorce in his history, without implying that he is now divorced in his current marriage.

Does that context change anyone's sense of how to construct the response in Italian?

I'd go with JAPrufrock's translation.

Honestly, I'd just answer in English. Raffaella at the LA consulate speaks English better than I do (not saying much ), so the risk of botching the meaning of an answer outweighs the benefit of communicating with the citizenship office in their mother tongue. On the other hand, if I were applying in Italy, I'd definitely try it in Italian.

She ain't from the deep South!!!

True, she's from Liguria. And she was much too gracious to laugh at Marilyn's and my southern drawls.

I love you all folks, I really do!

I might have a recognizable Romagna accent when I speak (which I’m proud of – I believe children should be taught to speak with a Romagna accent even if born in Anchorage, if you ask me), but my written Italian is good enough, it being the language I’ve been writing and reading for the last decades. For EVERY decade, actually. English is a recent acquisition, but Italian I sucked with my mother’s milk.
I would therefore like to thank all Anglos on this forum for officially endorsing my command of the Italian language and of the perilous passato prossimo.


Seriously now, an explanation.
Q was: how do you translate “I’ve had a prior marriage”?
A: the literal translation of “prior marriage” is “matrimonio precendente”, but what in English is “I’ve had a prior marriage” is rendered in Italian with “sono già stato/a sposato/a”. For some reason in this case we put more emphasis on what we’ve “been” than on what we’ve “had”. So un-Italian, innit?
Of course one can also say “ho avuto un matrimonio precedente” but it sounds very formal and bureaucratic. If you’re sitting in a bar and a bloke comes up to you and chit-chat-chit-chat and you say “ho avuto un matrimonio precedente” he might believe you’re a Romanian who has learned her Italian in a dusty grammar from the 50’s and whose only conversation in Italian has been with a tape. It’s more common to say “sono già stata sposata” – or any other of the many possible varieties that convey the same message, such as “sono divorziata/separata da X anni”, “ho un matrimonio alle spalle” (this sounds very bitter, so only use it if that split left you sleeping under a bridge and your daughter smokes crack) or “my husband flew to Cuba with a pole dancer”.
Or, not to be sexist, “I dumped my husband for a Cuban pole dancer”.
“Matrimonio precedente” is more easily found in a sentence such as “ho due figli (avuti) da un matrimonio precedente”.


Well, now I’ve brought forth my credentials, all you Anglos out there please feel free to ask me, because if it’s not love than it’s the bomb that will bring us together.
Especially young blond Swedes are encouraged to practice the I’ve-had-my-son-from-a-previous-marriage-before-meeting-this-Italian-bloke-and-falling-in-love-with-him concept.*


* Just kidding Annika and apologies to your husband if he’s reading this. Have a nice stay in Italy.

quote:

I got to the part where it asked "Married (YES/NO)" and responded "Si". The next item on the form asks "Divorced (YES/NO"). I thought that question was ambiguous -- do they want to know whether he is divorced from his most recent spouse (in which case that's me and the answer is no), or whether he has ever been divorced? I thought an appropriate way to answer (in English) would be "Yes -- I had a prior marriage". That would indicate that there is a divorce in his history, without implying that he is now divorced in his current marriage.

Q: Sposato Sì/No
A: Sì

Q: Divorziato?
A: Sì - da un matrimonio precedente.

I'd sure love to know why you'd want to turn yourself into a pretzel linguistically to tell a total stranger you have a failed marriage "sulle spalle". As if they'd care. O sei libera/o o non sei libera/o, and even that depends on the context...

quote:

Originally posted by Deborah Testa:
... I got to the part where it asked "Married (YES/NO)" and responded "Si". The next item on the form asks "Divorced (YES/NO"). I thought that question was ambiguous

I think they just want to know your actual marital state.
i.e. single/married/divorced/widow

If you are now married for the 2nd time, you are MARRIED and not divorced right now. Of course, you had been divorced before re-marrying, but either you are married or you are not at the very time of filling the application.


Same way goes if you are now divorced.
At the question married I would reply "no"...if you are unsure just write "once" + explanation.

Pola is correct.

JAPrufrock: I used your constructions -- si, and si - da un matrimonio precedente. Thanks! I know that Raffaella speaks very fine English, but I thought it would be nice to present ourselves in Italian.

Follow-up question: what is the name of the accent symbol over the "i" in Si, and how can I place it there using Microsoft Word? In this case, I was able to cut it from the web page containing your answer, and paste it into my document, then just modify the font to match the rest of my document. But how do I do that composing from scratch?

Now my next question is: what moved someone with an Italian heritage to adopt the moniker J. Alfred Prufrock? Was it something about the epigraph? One of the areas of emphasis I chose for my literature degree was the dramatic monologue, so I spent a lot of time with that poem. I haven't looked at it in years, but was prompted by your user name to look at it again, just now. Amazing.

I don’t know how it is called. I think just “accento”, so ì is “i accentata”. On my keyboard it’s on the key on left of the BackSpace key.

I don’t have an Italian heritage: I’m Italian born and bred and still living here. Never left Italy. (Are you scared now you know this? Will you still leave your bike unlocked when I'm around?)
Actually, I’m NOT an expat. In earnest I shouldn’t even be entitled to hang around here but they let me stay. Hope I didn’t outstay my welcome.

As for "why JAP?", you know, I was too old for “Holden Caulfield” and too sober for “Charles Bukowski”. I was tempted by “Sal Paradise” (the geezer liked travelling) but in the end I thought that J. Alfred Prufrock was my main man.
We've got something in common, me and Alfred.

Deborah, you can get them here:
http://italian.typeit.org/