This is about the tenth time this has happenned to me in the last month. I answered the phone at work in Italian. The person on the other end kept speaking (halting) English to me. At first I replied in Italian but then, noticing that they were speaking English and assuming that they must be non-Italian, I switched to English which I had to repeat several times as she did not understand me. Then at the end of the conversation I ask who is calling and it is an Italian. Then she has the audacity to ask me if I speak Italian. I answered the bloody phone in Italian! I live in Italy! I work for an Italian company! Does this person really think I would work and live amoungst Italians and not bother to learn the langauge? Did she somehow block out the Italian I spoke at the beginning of our conversation? Then she asked me if my colleague, who is also not Italian, speaks any Italian. Ugh. I get the impression that many Italians, as soon as they hear an accent or see my blonde hair just assume that I could not possibly speak Italian or live here - and so switch to their (usually worse than my Italian) English.


Earlier in the week, I went to buy an icecream. I ordered in Italian, paid in Italian, told him I did not want panna in Italian. And then at the end of the conversation he says "thank you" in halting English and then says (in English) "do you speak Italian?"

I had one nice experience yesterday though. I went to buy a pair of shoes in the sales. The guy behind the counter saw my blonde hair and green eyes and so started speaking English with me. I replied in Italian but he persisted in English. OK fair enough. Then I produced my Italian credit card and he says "ohhh, you LIVE here" - I said yes. And we proceded to have a nice conversation (in Italian) about where I'm from, why I'm here etc.

So I guess it's not so much the speaking English thing but the way in which it's done. Italians often seem just so unused to the concept that a foreigner might live in their country and speak the language. Like they've never heard a foreign accent before and don't know how to react. I don't mind if someone is keen to practice their English and asks me if we can speak English for this reason - but it drives me nuts when Italians - no matter how terrible their Enlish is - assume that a) as a foreigner I must be an English speaker and b) it will be easier to communicate in their bad English than in my OK Italian.

Obviously you're fluent, but I'm not, and especially on the phone I would just LOVE for someone to speak English! Those situations seem to be the most difficult and additionally the ones that require specialized words.

Last week, after struggling thru a conversation with the Tiscali rep, I eventually siad to her 'you can tell my Italian isn't bery good, so why don't I call back tomorrow when I have someone who speaks better Italian to help me?' I thought it was a reasonable request since we'd gotten to the part of the conversation where things were (I think) about to be resolved. I just wanted to make sure that I understood the terms. So....the reps says to me (in Italian) "is it better to speak English?", and I htought she was going to get someone else who spoke English, or have someone else call me back. Wrong! She then switched to English that was quite good....much better than my Italian, for sure.

In general we don't have the problem of people automatically speaking in English becuase where we are, English is not widely spoken, and my experience with Tiscali is the opposite of yours!

Well, there doesn't seem to be a point here, so I guess I'll stop rambling!

I remember being in a boutique in Paris... I was speaking (pretty bad) French, while the very French shopkeeper tried to speak (horrible) English with me. How I ever managed to buy those glittering pants is beyond me.

It happened so many times to me.

Location, my shop, a lady, obviously not Italian comes in:
Me: Buongiorno,
Customer: er....Haem... aahh
Me: Hi, I speak english may I help you?
Customer: I don't speak Italian, sorry, do you speak any english?

No, the lady is not idiot, she was so worried that she didn't understand that I was talking in english to her, and it was me and her alone. I can just imagine a secretary that usually does several things at once, she might have only recorded that you weren't Italian, therefore tried to help. After all there aren't many English people that speak Italian.
Whenever you come here send me an e-mail, I'll make a point into try to make it hard to you.

Hmm, some people insist on speaking English to me, but it is only because they want to practice. However, I am a minority, most people don't assume I speak English right off the bat. They assume I speak some language they definitely can't. It's only if/when they find out I am American that they try to practice, although by that time they usually have spoken Italian with me and know I can understand.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tiffany,

My husband and I are so obviously American that initially all conversations seem to begin in English. My husband, though, is quite fluent in his native Italian, and I find that as soon as people discover this, they eagerly and happily switch to Italian. Kind of leaves me out of the conversation, and it seems I'm constantly nudging my husband to ask "What did he say?"

It happens t me too & it drive sme insane,I speak only in Italian & get a response in English , how do they know I speak English ???? for all they know I could be any north nationality who doesn't understand English I always contuinue to speak (in correct) Italian whilst the Italian person is speaking to me in English. I know it's nice to practice but I've got no chance of improving my Italian skills like this!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by milanoclaire:
It happens t me too & it drive sme insane,I speak only in Italian & get a response in English , how do they know I speak English ???? for all they know I could be any north nationality who doesn't understand English I always contuinue to speak (in correct) Italian whilst the Italian person is speaking to me in English. I know it's nice to practice but I've got no chance of improving my Italian skills like this!!!!

Most of the time people speak in english to anybody is obviously not italian because we think, what the heck, English ia, afterall, an international language, if they're not Italian, chances are that they will speak english.
Tell your friends to spewak Italian with you, because you want topractice. They'll be happy to

quote:

for all they know I could be any north nationality who doesn't understand English

Like which one? Really, if they don't think you can speak Italian then their best bet is English because it's understood by so many people and also in many cases because that's the only other language they know. Just like I would speak English to somebody who doesn't speak Swedish - not because I assume they're English/American, but because chances are that they know more English than Swedish, and I'm surely better in English than in their language, whichever it is.

Well even after ten years or so my wife will still speak to me in English even though I beg her to speak Italian to me. I think it's mostly just a matter of people wanting to get their message across as easily as possible. I also found this with Italian friends in the US who even though I was speaking Italian to them they would answer in English. I mostly took it as an insult. Like they felt my Italian was so bad they would ignore it.

Funny thing is that here in the north people assume I'm German when I speak Italian. They can't imagine that any typically ignorant American would speak another language.

Of course there are many people who will respond in English just to show off or very often trying to be nice. For example at the check out at the super market after going through the transaction in Italian the checker will say thank you or something similar in English.

Sometimes I will ask people first if they speak English. This puts them on the spot and they will say just a little, So then I proceed to speak Italian. This seems to clarify the situation. And if I don't know a word I can say it in English and see if they know it.

Lately I've noticed that more and more people are wanting to practice their English on me. If I get lazy I let them do it otherwise I try to stick with Italian or even have a bilingual conversation.

We have so many people speak German to us, assuming that we are Germans, that I am starting to pick it up! Tonight our waitress spoke to us in Dutch despite us speaking ok Italian to her. It happens all the time. The only time it has really annoyed me was in Venice where a guy in a shop was quite rude to me when I persisted speaking Italian even though he was speaking English. I wasn't doing it deliberately, it's just that when I go into a shop I automatically switch into Italian mode and sometimes can't make the mental switch back to English again. On this occasion he somehow felt slighted and practically through my purchases at me when I left without so much as a thankyou or a goodbye. Jeez.

I personally didnt run into that problem too much in Milan, in fact a lot of times when I'd be walking down the street with Italian friends, those people who try and give you a survey or get you to vote would come to ME and start quizing me in Italian, which I always found amusing since I wasnt able to vote in their elections.

The only time I'd really see it is when I would be with my friend K- but then it wasnt directed at me. Whenever we'd be buying something and they'd tell her the price, she'd start to count her money out and they'd start repeating the price to her in broken english and trying to talk in broken english. This I always found extremely amusing, since she is Korean, and doesnt speak English! She's also very shy and woudnt say anything so I would for her, telling them that she doesnt understand English, and if they want to talk to her they'd better do it in Italian. If I was having a bad day I would also go off on them a bit about assuming that everyone speaks English, and that they're no better than the tourist who show up and expect everyone to speak English no matter what country they're in. Usually got an apology outta them

Lori

Hey Lori....Nice to see you still around girl!!! How're ypu doin'?

Keep in touch!

Carole B.

I'm glad to know it isn't just me! It's happened to me many times where I would ask a question or start a conversation in Italian and they would only speak (usually worse) English to me - I just assumed that meant that my Italian was really bad! lol

I don't look Italian at all but almost no one assumed I was American if I hadn't said anything yet. Usually they would ask me if I was German or Russian - but they almost always asked in Italian! I loved it in Rome in December because most of the tourists were other Italians I stood out with bright red hair and being much taller than the average girl... there were a few times where if I was looking at something at the market or pausing on the street people would try and guess my nationality. I loved it!

As Barb said, this is not as big an issue in Umbria where it less likely that folks will break into English. It did kind of frustrate me when I visited Florence, though. Even though I spoke in my best Italian, so many people replied in English. It pretty much bruised my pride!

I think that was more of a reflection on me than anything else, as I really wanted to be accepted as someone who could be understood. I'll try to just be happy that someone else is trying to make the effort to communicate rather than take it as a condemnation of my Italian language skills.

I once went to a restaurant in Bevagna and the owner thought my wife and I were Swiss. I wonder what that was about. Switzerland is pretty diverse liguistically. Perhaps it was something in the way we acted instead of the way we talked that prompted him to think that????

Maybe it's simply the foreign accent (it takes a while to lose one, and they are easily recognizable). I speak Italian; they speak English. My husband speaks Italian; they speak Italian (but then he doesn't have an accent).

I don't think it's meant as an insult, and maybe it's just an old habit from those times when foreigners never attempted Italian. Maybe they're just trying to help.

quote:

Originally posted by jhelm:
Sometimes I will ask people first if they speak English. This puts them on the spot and they will say just a little, So then I proceed to speak Italian. This seems to clarify the situation. And if I don't know a word I can say it in English and see if they know it.

If I was in another country with a different language and people is trying to be nice trying their best to make me feel easier, and I want to speak their language , I would approach them by saying, as soon as they address me in my language : I speak Italian, thank you! Not surely "putting them on the spot as they are offending me" I mean a " Grazie, Io parlo Italiano" in Italy sounds more correct tome than a "DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH?"

Anyway this thread is useful.

At first I thought that it was a simply nasty thread like the last few ones - ex man with breasts, Italian crazy drivers...etc- but then I realized the implications of it, and really, the cultural difference hidden behind.
In Italy we try to help, even when we are nor requested and there is no need for help.
We think that it is our duty, and some of you take it as a judgemental thing like - you are hopeless and It is better that I do something or we'll never move away from here! -before someone jumps in, I am talking about normal people, that decently attend at foreigners everyday-
I also thought that sometimes when I hear engish or foreigner accents I switch automatically into english, and that in a couple of times people snapped back at me " I SPEAK ITALIAN!"
- To one I answered "GOOD FOR YOU" to another " OK, OK, but do not beat me up!" both of the times it ended with a laugh and an explanation of the lady-first one- man -second one-
More frequently I say,great, you are one of the very few that does.

RTPM, and all others, explain -gently, because they are trying to be kind to you- that you speak Italian well, and go on in Italian. Really, I see no reason to be soooo offended.

I was more offended in France when they ignored my french and made strange looks and rolled eyes to each other every time I spoke. Doubly strange, In my shop people compliments me on my french!

It's an interesting subject that we face very often living in a country that doesn't speak our own native tounge. In the US my Italian wife reminds me that when people heard her accent they would start talking to her as if she were a child. Or if she left a phone message people would call back and tell me they couldn't understand it.

Let's not forget too that this insult business goes both ways. If someone speaks English to you and you insist on speaking Italian who is insulting whom? They may think they are doing you a favor and your insistence on speaking Italian is telling them their English is not good enough. My guess is that most Italians in this situation are just trying to be nice or helpful or maybe want to show off a little. So we should appreciate their efforts and not get insulted.

In these situations in stores for example, I usually reply to their English in English, then I may continue in Italian or English or both. Just depends, on how I feel or how much we really talk. Usually ends with a smile on both sides.

Another twist on this: Many tourists live out of their phrase book - especially since they have read in all the books that the Italians will treat them good and be extremely happy if they attempt to speak Italian, even if they only know a few words. Therefore, they will pick up that phrase book and memorize some opening phrase: "Buongiorno, quanto costano queste scarpe?" but then they won't understand the answer, which is why the shopkeeper wants to treat the customer good and make them feel at ease, and hence make an attempt to reply in the customer's own language, or at least a language that is easier to understand than Italian.
Isn't that sweet?

About it having to do with looks... I don't know. The only people speaking English to me when I was in Italy were you guys and a woman at Linate - but only because I spoke to her in English first... I said "Buongiorno" and then froze, I had no idea on how to say that I wanted to check in on the flight to Stockholm in Italian.
I don't think I look very Italian, do you?

Allessandra, we must have been typing at the same time. I think you misread my first post a bit. Maybe I shouldn't have used the phrase "puts them on the spot". What I mean is that I'm letting them know that if they are comfortable speaking English we can and if the conversation is important it's probably better for me to speak English, so I ask if it's possible. If they say no or just a little then it's clear that I should speak Italian as much as I can and they won't go off speaking at a speed which leaves me lost.

Anyway, I've found traveling around in various countries that I don't want to be seen as the ugly American who assumes that everyone should speak English. So I ask if they do up front, in a polite way. In the Chech Republic for example with my wife who speaks Italian first then French and English we would go through the list, trying to hit on a common language. I think this lets people know that we are just trying to communicate in the best way for both sides.

The topic here is maybe people just expressing a bit of frustration over making a real effort to learn the language and be part of the culture then feeling somewhat rejected when they are immediately treated like a foreigner, even though they are.

It doesn't happen to me much anymore, because around here very few people speak English, and those who do are not very comfortable with it. It used to happen to me all the time in Rome, though, because I really don't look Italian and because despite my best efforts, I have an accent when I speak.

I remember one time that was especially annoying. I was buying something in a shop. The entire transaction took place in Italian, until the very end when the cashier asked me in English, "Do you want a carry?" The first time she asked it I didn't realize it was English because we had been speaking Italian. So I paused for a few seconds trying to understand. So she repeated it. But I still didn't get it, so I asked her to repeat it again. I think she was asking if I wanted a bag, but I wasn't sure, and she was getting very impatient with me, so I just said no and that was the end of it.

Generally, if someone speaks English to me, I'll respond in English, but if I notice after a couple sentences that they're having difficulty, I'll respond in Italian. At that point they are usually relieved to start speaking Italian again. If someone speaks really good English, I'll continue in English, because I don't get very many opportunities to speak it, and I kind of miss it.