Despite programs to bolster southern Italy's economy, it continues to fall further behind the North. See http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2008-08-18_118258888.html

Yes this also concerns me as well Bill2. of all the troubles Italy has this is probably one of the ones that i think in my opinion is most concerning.the south needs something to jump start their economy. i know they wanted to build a bridge between the straits of messina then it was cancelled, then it was rejuvenated then their was talks of stopping again. does anyone know if this is still going ahead? in my opinion the south is caught in a vicious circle, because of all the jobs in the north most leave after finishing school this then reduces Aggregate demand in the south, therefore making less jobs and the whole process repeats itself. i really don't know what the government can do more to fix this situation.

One thing the govt can do is take the soldiers that are patrolling the streets in the North harassing undocumented immigrants and send them south to hunt down Camorra and Mafia. Unlikely though, Berlusconi doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds him.

quote:

i know they wanted to build a bridge between the straits of messina

My impression after traveling for a month there last year by car -- inland as well as along the coast -- is that Sicily's economy looked pretty good. There were new houses, new cars, good roads and bridges and healthy looking tourist and non-tourist-related businesses just about everywhere we went.

I don't know how much of this is the result of second or third homes of northern Italians or foreigners -- but even inland cities like Enna looked fairly prosperous to me. I haven't been able to come up with anything specific about the current state of Sicily's economy. Maybe someone else can find more information online?

This won't make me very popular, but hiding one's head in the sand won't do anyone any good.
There's no such thing as "Italy". I mean, ok, we speak the same language (NZ and Canada do too), but Italy is indeed a dual country. In the EU, it's the country with the most acute regional differences, more than can be found between (not within) most states.

I've got a feeling that the South of Italy, in twenty years' time or so, will be overtaken by most of the former Eastern European countries.

Despising Lega Nord doesn't erase the factor that brought that party to their first successes in the 90's, before they became an anti-immigrant racist party.

"The South shall rise again"? It's about time the lads down there rise for the first time, methinks.

"I've got a feeling that the South of Italy, in twenty years' time or so, will be overtaken by most of the former Eastern European countries."

im not really sure what you mean by this. do you mean that there will be military action to reclaim the south or just lots of eastern european immigrants?i don't really see any of the eastern countries really powerful enough to compete with NATO even if Russias with them.
however i can see the north and south forming 2 different countries. hopefully Roma will remain on the border of the south.

I think he means overtake them economically, as in having higher standard of living, employment, income.

We saw the articles in the paper, and from what I could tell, yes, the south is suffering more, but in general Italy's economy...and everyone who lives here....has suffered since the introduction of the euro.

The article linked above tries to show how the gap between North And South has actually been widening.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill 2:
I think he means overtake them economically, as in having higher standard of living, employment, income.

Yep.
In my rusty, non native English, to overtake=to surpass. Isn't it so? In this case, sorry.

Your English is perfect. I'm guessing Vince just was looking at it from a different angle- I make that mistake lots of times too.

For those who can read Italian:
http://ricerca.repubblica.it/repubblica/archivio/repubb...pa-una-in-testa.html

From La Repubblica, not exactly a The Sun-like newspaper.

Yes no need to apologise Japrufrock my misinterpretation nothing is wrong with your english, that sometimes happens when communicting over the pc without any emotion etc. and in that sense i do agree with you that some eastern euro countries will overtake the mezzogiorno, i think even today some would be ahead. whilst still the mafia is still a problem i don't think it is a big of a problem as it was say 10-20 years ago. what the government needs to do is spend alot on infrastructure in the south, some places you can't even get a decent mobile reception.

Don't know if this is a cause, an effect, or both:
Italy's Ministry of Education says students in the south are 2 years behind students in the north.
http://www.corriere.it/cronache/08_agosto_26/scuole_rag...1-00144f02aabc.shtml

Italy, unfortunately, didn't manage very well the Euro changover. Italy is the only country that has the Euro that experienced such ridiculous increases in prices.

quote:

Originally posted by Damien:
Italy, unfortunately, didn't manage very well the Euro changover. Italy is the only country that has the Euro that experienced such ridiculous increases in prices.

Staple food and a few other items apart, it's the purchaser that determines the prices of things. However difficult this could be to put into our heads, we must try hard and accept reality for what it is.
Too expensive? Leave it on the shelf. As easy as that. Prices will drop very soon, upon my word!
You buy it? Then you DIDN'T judge it too expensive.

So if your statement is true (IF it is true), one of the following two applies:
a) Italy is the country that more than any other could afford an increase in prices, that is to say proces where LOW before;
b) Italy has too high a percentage of airheads who can't sum up two and two.

Japufrock, like a lot of things in Italy, they are passively accepted by most people. Judging from how people are struggling to reach the end of the moment, I don’t think that Italy was better equipped in comparison to other countries for price hikes. A concrete example is a Pizzeria near my house that used to charge 6.000 lire for a Pizza Margherita, and shortly after the Euro was introduced, it shot up to 6.00 Euros – that’s 100% inflation! Did anyone fine him? No, and that is why people are being bled dry.

quote:

Originally posted by Damien:
A concrete example is a Pizzeria near my house that used to charge 6.000 lire for a Pizza Margherita, and shortly after the Euro was introduced, it shot up to 6.00 Euros – that’s 100% inflation! Did anyone fine him? No, and that is why people are being bled dry.

But Japufrock's point, as it is, still stands... if people continued to buy pizza from that place after a 100% hike, they are equally to blame for the acceptance of the situation by enabling it. Of course, if ALL pizzerias made the same hike, the only choice would be to stop buying pizza altogether... a choice I just don't think italians are ready to make!

How was that saying about money and stupid people quickly shifting apart, or summat?
If Italians “accept passively” all that befalls them, why wonder we’re in shambles? It’s just the obvious outcome and we only deserve it.


And fine him? FINE? Whatcha talkin’ about, Damien?
Is this Yekaterinburg, late Seventies or what?
The purchaser has got all it takes to “fine” the businesses he doesn’t approve of.
The pizzeria double prices? Stay home. Pizza is hardly a fundamental need in people’s life and if revolution is just a pizza-less night away, well, it’s a price worth paying.

I bet my sbaragnàuz that as soon as that pizzeria sees plenty of vacant tables, the pizzaiolo will lower his prices as fast as hell. And if he doesn’t see empty tables, what on earth should oblige him to lower prices?

That’s basic maths and basic logics. No rocket science indeed.

Maybe I wasn’t clear, so let me explain why a fine would have been legal and the right thing to do. When the original Euro Zone members signed up for the Euro, they all signed up for an official exchange rate of their individual currencies, and very importantly, they all signed up to monitoring prices for the immediate six months following the Euro’s introduction. I know for a fact this happened in several Euro countries, but I really don’t think it happened in Italy given the brazen and blatant profiteering that took place. For this reason, the Pizzeria should have been fined and big time!

I study economics and Japrufrocks theory is correct. it is the simple law of demand and supply, which means it could be caused by one of two problems.Unless peoples wages rised accordingly with the inflation it could be caused by either people are so dependent on these items that they force themselves to buy these items which in turn would sustain the prices. another reason is that supply have dropped whilst demand have stayed the same. and since italys economy is slowing i think this is more the likely reason.i don't know how much it has slowed by and not enough to cause this type of shortage. however i don't think this just applys to the south all of italy, but i think had a greater affect.

Back to the topic of Italy's south falling further behind the north, as I mentioned, Italy's Education Minister says students in the south are 2 years behind students in the north. Now a Banca d'Italia study shows drop out rates in the south are 25%, while in the north they are 18%. The EU norm is 15%.

Is this lagging behind just a cultural difference between north and south? Is it a result of exploitation of the south by the north?

I see some causes, all of them deeply entwined:

1) reference models. In some areas of the world being educated gives a prestige that means nothing somewhere else. Education, unlike rules, can’t be enforced. It must come our of a genuine interest and a genuine belief that learning makes you a better person and people around you are keen on recognizing this. If there’s no such outlook, studying is only a waste of time and it makes you an isolated person.

2) the weather. Icelanders are the biggest readers in the world. Thank you: what else are you supposed to do in Iceland?
In more temperate climates, and in HOT climates more so, people tend to have a more outgoing extroverted lifestyle. It’s hot, sunny, you tend to go out. You don’t develop a speculative mind, you don’t develop a real pleasure for browsing the pages of a book.
You also probably live better, but this is a different topic altogether.

3) probably more important of all, the general economic conditions of the area. It’s much more likely to develop a genuine interest for learning in societies that are rather well off, where your parents are likely to have studied themselves, to have travelled, to have books on the shelves etc.

Of course the endless rant “the North exploits the South” still has a lot of supporters, but – if ever – doesn’t apply to educational levels in the slightest.

My tupence.