Due to the discussion on another thread over the phrase "Moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi" (Wives and oxen from your own country) I've decided a poll is in order....

This is an opportunity for those who wish to voice their opinion anonymously to do so.

Question:
Regardless of language, do you find the phrase "Moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi" (Wives and oxen from your own country) offensive, sexist, racist, misogynistic, or any other ist/ism?

Choices:
Yes, it is offensive to me.
Yes, I find it a racist statement.
Yes, I find it a misogynistic statement.
Yes, I find it a sexist statement.
Yes, I find it to be all of the above.
It depends on who says it and how they say it.
No, it doesn't bother me.
No, it doesn't bother me and don't be so PC.
No, it doesn't bother me at all (not like the PC police do).
No, it doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I've said it too.
It's my favorite saying.

 

What seems to have been overlooked is the fact that this is a proverb that goes back quite some way.

"MOGLIE E BUOI DEI PAESI TUOI
Proverbio che viene usato per evidenziare l'opportunità di celebrare i matrimoni fra persone degli stessi luoghi per una migliore comprensione e unione, quantunque ciò spesso non risponda a verità."

Wives and oxen from your town.
Proverb that is used to highlight the opportunity to celebrate marriages between people from the same place for a better union and understanding, although that often did not correspond with the truth.


De Mauro says:
1. territorio piuttosto grande che presenta omogeneità sotto un determinato aspetto: p. montuoso, pianeggiante..
| centro abitato di modeste dimensioni: p. di montagna, festa di p., p. di pescatori

1. A rather large piece of territory that shows a certain uniformity under certain aspects: mountainlike, level/plains..

|Inhabited town of modest size: mountain town, fishing town

I believe that the proverb refers to the 'paese' being small towns and NOT entire countries.

If this is the case, then as an ancient proverb, probably in use here even before the Mayflower landed at Plymouth, it probably made a lot of sense then...

Doesn't change the fact that a modern day politician said it, "on the record", in the context of marriages between modern italians and immigrants... during a period of racial tension and immigration propaganda. The argument that context is key isn't helping the phrase's acceptability at all here...

edit: I realize now that this thread is actually removed from the context of the original quote sparking it... maybe I should have posted this back in the other thread...

Hello all, i havent posted for a while, but i agree with this;

QUOTE "What seems to have been overlooked is the fact that this is a proverb that goes back quite some way.

"MOGLIE E BUOI DEI PAESI TUOI
Proverbio che viene usato per evidenziare l'opportunità di celebrare i matrimoni fra persone degli stessi luoghi per una migliore comprensione e unione, quantunque ciò spesso non risponda a verità."

Wives and oxen from your town.
Proverb that is used to highlight the opportunity to celebrate marriages between people from the same place for a better union and understanding, although that often did not correspond with the truth.

and YET, in the same breath i also feel in todays times it is rather provincial.

Saluti, Solare.

quote:

Proverb that is used to highlight the opportunity to celebrate marriages between people from the same place for a better union and understanding, although that often did not correspond with the truth.

Maybe a better union/understanding, but is inbreeding really better than maybe a marriage with someone from a few towns over? Look at the impact inbreeding's had on European royal families:
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/c-d/disease04.html

Folks, I mean, are you serious?
That Lega Nord are what they are is widely understood in Italy bar for that 5% who vote for them, so a single quote on a century-old proverb proves no point whatsoever that hasn’t already been proved.

What’s next? A speculation on “An apple a day keeps the doctor away” – an utterly politically incorrect saying by all evidence.

Why should we keep the doctor away, in the first place? Have we got something against doctors? A case of professional discrimination?
And is that a biological apple, a genomically manipulated apple? Does this apple raise any ethical issue?
Is it a EU-subsided apple or was it grown in a family-run piece of land in the Andes?
And in this case, how much oil did it take to move that apple from Chile to Italy?
Is it wise to keep the doctor away given the level of health awareness we are struggling to achieve?
And above all isn’t it disrespectful of all those people who live in unfortunate areas and who’d give all they have to have a doctor NEAR, not AWAY?


I mean, folks, sit down, have a cold beer and relax, ok?

quote:

That Lega Nord are what they are is widely understood in Italy bar for that 5% who vote for them, so a single quote on a century-old proverb proves no point whatsoever that hasn’t already been proved.

5%? Think again- Berlu's approval rating is 65%. And he's as thick as thieves with Lega Nord.

I don't give a flip about the saying. I do care that the governing coalition (of which Lega Nord is the keystone) is placing restrictions on mixed marriage in Italy.

quote:

Originally posted by JAPrufrock:
I mean, folks, sit down, have a cold beer and relax, ok?

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of you. But that's par for the course.

“An apple a day keeps the doctor away” – an utterly politically incorrect saying by all evidence.

Ummm, politically incorrect? Since when is an innocuous but not entirely off-the-mark health adage considered incorrect in political terms? Does Dick Cheney eat apples so maybe the rest of us shouldn't just in case we might want to invade Hawaii?

JAP, please beg, borrow or steal a ticket to an anglophone country and get some oomph behind those wild opheliaisms of yours.

quote:

Since when is an innocuous but not entirely off-the-mark health adage considered incorrect in political terms?

Since an as much innocuous adage about wives and oxen became itself incorrect. That's since when.
And anyway I thought this was a "Psycho-W*nk Contest" and I wanted to play too.

"opheliaisms" ????

Careful, you too may join his ignore list.

quote:

JAP, please beg, borrow or steal a ticket to an anglophone country and get some oomph behind those wild opheliaisms of yours.

Isn't buying that ticket contemplated among your options?
And anyway I'm okay where I am. I tend to think that as an Italian I'd be the target of racial jokes in America more than any American is the target of racial jokes here.

Thank you for caring though.

I read this thread and think it must be a textbook for the Sarah Palin school of disconnected reasoning.

Bill, it depends on how one interprets

MOGLIE E BUOI DEI PAESI TUOI


Wives and oxen from your town

quote:

Originally posted by solare:
Bill, it depends on how one interprets

MOGLIE E BUOI DEI PAESI TUOI
Wives and oxen from your town

Got it- see my reply to your post above:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill 2:
Maybe a better union/understanding, but is inbreeding really better than maybe a marriage with someone from a few towns over?

Moved per request of OP.