| Premium Membership | Calendar & News | Our Moderators | Stories & Blogs | Main Site Index | Forum Help |
Expats in Italy Forum 
Expats in Italy Forum Moving to/Living in Italy Everything Else Italian troops deploy to city streets
Expats in Italy Forum Moving to/Living in Italy Everything Else Italian troops deploy to city streetsPage 1 2
|
Go
|
New
|
Find
|
Notify
|
Tools
|
Reply
|
|
|
Volo Libero Cittadino |
What do you think- is this a good way to solve Italy's immigration national emergency? What will be the impact on tourism?
|
||
|
|
Residente |
Whew, there's a lot to cover here. First I think the center-left has a very valid point in that the right is making it look like Italy is under siege. Are there really armed immigrants prowling the streets preying on Italians? Are Italians hiding in their homes afraid to go out because of the immigration problem? Is this the national emergency it's being painted up as? (Just to be clear: the above questions were all rhetorical.)
In other words, Italians are fed up with illegal immigration, fine, but isn't this a bit of overkill? Who, having come up with this gem, then decided that major cities are desperately in need of help? I could see watching points of entry, but since when is a city like Bologna or Torino a point of entry? Did mayors specifically ask for troops, or are they being thrust on them? As for tourism, I doubt the sight of armed pattuglie wandering around will be a deterrent: I remember when, after a real bomb at FCO, we saw pairs of machine gun-toting army types all over, and they were pretty non-threatening. Tourists tend to stick out a mile, so it's unlikely they'll be mistaken for illegals and hassled. If there's going to be any kind of backlash it won't be from tourists, it'll come from Italians who will see the ploy for what it is and unless--unlikely--it really produces some valid results (ie, illegals are expelled--and not held in detention centers on Italian soil) they will get tired of feeling like they're living in some third world dictatorship in the throes of a revolution. And the illegals? They'll probably duck underground until someone decides this was another hare-brained idea and drop it. So nothing accomplished there. |
|||
|
|
Volo Libero Cittadino |
This was my favorite part:
Thank goodness the troops, through their combat experience in Afghanistan, are now prepared for the mean streets of Turin and Verona. |
|||
|
|
Cittadino |
I think policy there is shoot first and ask questions later. This is stupidity beyond comprehension. Our city for example must have 5 different police forces already on duty all of whom seem to do mostly nothing, so I doubt they need help from the army. My brother who just visted for two weeks was to say the least shocked to see the Carbinieri doing their road side checks with body armor and a machine gun. Is the next step martial law in Italy? |
|||
|
|
Cittadino |
Actually all of this is kind of scary...I remember coming to rome in the 80's (when "we bombed" Libya...there were men with machine guns everywhere and they thought it very cute and funny just to point them helter skelter at any passerby and watch the fear....
As for a deterrent to tourism maybe it should be so they can see how ridiculous it all is... |
|||
|
|
Volo Libero Cittadino |
If Bossi, Fini, Maroni and company get their way, the answer is yes. |
|||
|
|
Turista |
I'D like to expat from italy, as italian i ask to forgive us and know that there is a 10% of italian that are behind all this Berlusconi Crap. Really i'm thinking i and my oregonian BF to expat back in Portland Or. Next step will be economical collaps like argentina, and Mussolini come back.
  |
|||
|
|
Residente |
seriously. i was in a muslim-owned grocery store today and bought some very scary spices... i almost didn't make it out of there with the scary immigrant guy asking me if i wanted to try a piece of cold watermelon. where are the military when you need them? THEN to make matters worse i got the best kebab of my life for 3 euros a few doors down and i was sure that something so cheap and tasty must be poisoned or rigged, so i ate the whole thing and i am just waiting to see what will happen... but seriously, i am scared of people with guns- especially scared people with guns- if italy turns to martial law i think that would be enough to send me packing. |
|||
|
|
Permesso di Soggiorno |
What's this? Forgive us for what, exactly? Italy has known more popular times, of course and I’m myself far from proud of being Italian (what’s this “pride” about really? Being born here or there is ultimately a matter of chance. All we can do is make the best of our lives anyway) but other countries have got their shortcomings and their bad habits. A massive difference is that Italians’ bad habits get paid for by Italians themselves, whilst other nations’ bad habits get paid for by the whole world. Look at it this way, bernardo: when compared with certain nations, we still have the moral high ground, however shambolic we might be. Cheers. |
|||
|
|
Permesso di Soggiorno |
August 1992, an interstate somewhere in Arizona. Me and my friend Bruno see a police car approaching in the rear view mirror. A blue light is flashing. We understand we've got to pull over. As we stop, the hatted guy  in the car says through the mike "please gents, get out of the car and remain in sight".  We thought it was a candid camera. We didn't know wether to laugh or do what we were told. It looked like one of those movies that never end well. It turned out we had exceeded speed limit. We got a ticket and the policeman was worldly enough to understand our bewilderment and he reassured it was standard procedure "you know gents, you never know who you gonna meet these days*. Enjoy your holidays and don't drive too fast". The point being? That I hate to be pedantic, and I know that this tit-for-tat of mine can get annoying but yes, when seen from outsiders "standard procedures" can be quite amazing - even scary, while people who are used to them don't see anything worth worring about. Tell your brother to just relax. We seem to have poor PR personnel and less than average politicians, but Italy is a LOW crime country, compared to better advertised nations. ________________________________________ * Probably, if the real WMD weren't so easily available down your local WalMart or thereabout he wouldn't be so stressed when stopping two clueless nerds driving with a little too much enthusiasm on their coast to coast holiday. But I guess this is a different point altogether. |
|||
|
|
Volo Libero Cittadino |
I don't think anyone on the thread has stated Italy is a high crime country. On the contrary, we think it's absurd that Lega Nord/Alleanza Nazionale are putting troops in the street to fight a non-existent crime wave and non-emergency immigrant national emergency. Isn't it obvious they are playing on the electorate's fears to strengthen their political position?
|
|||
|
|
Permesso di Soggiorno |
'Course they are.
Which proves - I'm afraid to have to conclude - the immaturity of the Italian electorate. This lot have got no project for the country, no perspective. Their agenda is based on polls and this doesn't speak in favour of the Italian electorate, if you think of it. |
|||
|
|
Permesso di Soggiorno |
The crime in Italy is relatively low, but last year we certainly didn't like being accosted by aggressive beggars and panhandlers on the streets of Perugia. We also know of many people who've been robbed. Clearly, something must be done.
|
|||
|
|
Cittadino |
Gee I wonder what other nation he might be talking about. Maybe the one that thinks it's ok to invade and occupy a nation that posed no threat to it. |
|||
|
|
Permesso di Soggiorno |
I didn’t name any nation. Chip on their shoulder anyone?
I stand by my point. Italy is a shambles and most of the criticism levelled at us is justified. But WE pay for it. And it’s our duty to have our country sorted, one day or the other. The rest of the world is free to have their say, and there’s a lot to learn from other people’s opinions. But I stand by my point. I replied to a poster who felt he had to apologize. I don’t feel I have to apologize to any foreigner – whose opinions are always welcomed nonetheless, mind. |
|||
|
|
Volo Libero Cittadino |
If you believe there is a real security emergency in Italy, I got a bridge in Venice to sell you. Many people are robbed in many countries. Italy has a lower crime rate than most of them, but it's the one with Lega Nord in power, and consequently the one with the army patrolling its streets. |
|||
|
|
Residente |
I will not be happy if when in Rome I see armed military walking the streets.
I live in a rural area and on a day-to-day basis won't see this, but still, I'm not happy. I think it will NOT be good for tourism. I know if I'm showing family and friends around Rome it will leave a negative impression and they will all think I should leave this country as the impression will be that something ugly is imminent. Will the guns be just to scare immigrants into leaving? Herd them into detention centers? Or shoot them if they attempt to flee during questioning? Very scary. Is it naive to hope for massive protests by Italians on this? I also admit to an initial reaction of wanting to leave Italy over this policy. |
|||
|
|
Volo Libero Cittadino |
I'm going with Herd immigrants into detention centers.
|
|||
|
|
Residente |
Well, today's the day. I'll be out and about in Torino so I'll post back what I come across here--not that that's what may be happening elsewhere, but it might be illuminating.
Watch this space... |
|||
|
|
Volo Libero Cittadino |
The deployment starts Monday.
|
|||
|
|
Residente |
Actually I didn't get a "chip his shoulder" feeling from Jhelms comment- you are are the only one that responded nastily. Reading your comment Japrufrock, it really did seems like you were referring to the U.S. in particular, even if that is not what you MEANT... |
|||
|
|
Residente |
Oops, could have sworn it was Thursday...sorry. But I'll still have a look next week to see how things are shaking down. The Torinese authorities on the street are a pretty laid back bunch, who knows what sort of pattuglie we'll get lumbered with, but dollars to donuts there'll be some friction starting between coppers and jarheads long before a single immigrant is apprehended. In fact I suspect this whole thing is going to deteriorate into a Keystone Kops episode fairly quickly--especially since the immigrant "danger" just doesn't warrant all this flap (as I said above). But Italians can get an eyeful of where their taxes are going! And maybe it finally will sink home just what they elected... |
|||
|
|
Volo Libero Cittadino |
jhelm is agreeing with you. |
|||
|