Because
"italians are lost and overwelmed, they are frustrated, angry and in psicological disconfort still they can't see what they are getting wrong. They blame evrybody but themself
the church has tought them that everything is in the hands of God
so they wait for him to sort it all out

vince campbell, Brighton,"


Spot on, Vince.
That's precisely the point.

Hmm. . . beer swilling Englishmen with tatoos. Sound like perfect gentlemen to me. I'd wager that they're even more gentlemanly at their soccer games. What is it that they say about "glass houses"?

This coming from the land with the highest rate of teenage pregancies and STDs .... mmmhhhh, let he without sin cast the first stone ....

quote:

What is it that they say about "glass houses"?

Funny, because I always find that the rudest tourists in Rome are British! BUT, I would never write an article about it since maybe this has just been my luck and I run into a lot of rude British tourists.
Also, coming to the poor Italians defense, IF you do not push your way onto a crowed bus or metro in much of Italy then you will never get on, so this sound more like a learned survival technique that happens to also be rude...i even find myself doing a bit of pushing when getting on the metro in Rome

Manners are different everywhere and it's often a case of one man's meat...you can get away with some things in some countries that would horrify people in another. On the other hand, some people seem ridiculous with their insistance that you perform certain tricks with your knife and fork.

Queueing, elbows on table while eating--the list is endless, but as Jenna says, if you don't push to get on that bus in Rome, you may never reach your destination, because by the time the next bus comes along the line will have re-formed with the same situation as before. But don't try that in London!

I don't find Italians rude because I'm used to them by now, and I see a certain logic behind certain behaviour (elbows on table means you know what people are doing with their hands, which you wouldn't if said hands were concealed under the table--getting out a switchblade, groping your wife).

Anyway, manners are really about oiling the machinery of human interaction: if you can make things a wee bit more pleasant by your behaviour, then do.

Emily...Damien...Jenna...et al - you need to understand that Matthew Parris is a witty, ironic, professional sh*t-stirrer and you've risen to his bait like a trout to a fly. (Think his line about Italians 'yabbering in Italian' should've given you a clue. What are Italians supposed to 'yabber' in - Turkish ?)

But that's OK - it's British humour in a British paper and you don't get the joke. And let's just all be thankful Mr Parris didn't vent his waspish spleen on all those American tourists yabbering in American who visit the UK each year.

"We cannot reconcile these brand-addicted airheads with their cultured forebears" Matthew Parris

I really don't think he was trying to be funny here. Maybe funny in the sense of racial slurrs tuned into "Polish jokes". He was angry because he got crowded in front of and decided to say all Italian are nothing but a bunch of air heads. Pretty insulting if you ask me.

quote:

(elbows on table means you know what people are doing with their hands, which you wouldn't if said hands were concealed under the table--getting out a switchblade, groping your wife).

That's the same reason I've come up with. In fact it is considered rude behavior by Italians to have your hands under the table. My very well educated Italian wife was very worried that I would forget to keep my hands on top of the table when I had my first meal with her parents.

I don't know about Brits but I'll tell you the main reason Americans don't crowd in line is that they know they will at the least get yelled at or at the worst beat up. Reminds me of my last trip through the airport security in London. A couple of beer swilling chip eating Brits crowded in front of me while I bent over to find my passport, I the typical road rageing gun totting American that I am didn't hesitate to tell them to back off. They seemed insulted that I would even mention it. Note of explanation, I am being sarcastic and just trying to point out that we all have our differences.

DeeBee – is was humor? Hey, if you think I didn’t get the humor I believe you. To be honest, I am tired of the British press constantly writing articles about what is wrong with Europe and other Europeans. If the British dislike the EU/Europe so much, why don’t they just leave? They say the can’t because the government won’t let them, but that’s hogwash, have they never heard of people power?

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...the main reason Americans don't crowd in line

Have you seen the news footage of store openings at Day-after-Thanksgiving sales? Like pirrana going at a floating capybara.

Hang on a minute folks...

It's a well known fact that Italians have the sharpest elbows in the world!


They are taught from birth that the only way to 'get ahead' is to use your elbows and to totally ignore the fact that 'maybe' someone else has been waiting (for whatever it might be)longer than you.

I am convinced that many have a special tool at home which they use evry evening to hone to perfection the sharpness of their elbows


'cos man they don't half hurt when the dig 'em in your ribs to get past you!

quote:

Originally posted by Damien:
I am tired of the British press constantly writing articles about what is wrong with Europe and other Europeans. If the British dislike the EU/Europe so much, why don’t they just leave?

Alas, the EU isn't like a party you can leave when you get bored.

And as for the highest rate of teen pregnancies in the world; the highest rate of STDs; the highest rate of public drunkeness; the most aggressive, tattooed football hooligans and the rest - well, then at least the UK still leads the world in something.

Matthew Parris ? I've worked with him a little, so maybe take my comments about him on trust ?

quote:

Originally posted by Damien:
I am tired of the British press constantly writing articles about what is wrong with Europe and other Europeans. If the British dislike the EU/Europe so much, why don’t they just leave?

Oh but they DO want out: no euro, no schengen, endless battle. Jealous that it was the Irish who rejected Lisbon, they would've preferred to do it themselves.

I sympathize with the poor columnist: being elbowed in the tube not once, not twice, but three times in a year!! This is a violation of basic human rights!!
I don't know how he can handle the trauma...

Mmhhhh, DeeBee.

For starters, “yabbering in Italian” was his way of letting the reader know how he recognized they were Italians – I don’t suppose they had a tag on their shirt?
Secondly, this comes as latest in a long line of Italy-bashing (mostly deserved, if you ask me) and I think it’s everybody’s experience that this Perris has a point. So “British humour in a British paper and you don't get the joke” doesn’t really convince me. The very same comments by the readers are there to prove that the article was taken at face value.

But most interesting of all is, methinks, the comment posted by that reader from Brighton that I pasted: Italians ARE frustrated and in psychological discomfort, and clueless about what they do wrong because most of the things they do wrong are what Italians ARE, their set of values and behaviours (I could entertain you for ages on this).

This makes for a difficult way out of the current impasse – and for interesting times ahead....

quote:

Originally posted by jhelm:
Pretty insulting if you ask me.

It doesn't count nor hurt when coming from someone you rate pretty low.
Between you and me, if I were still among the cherubs and were given a choice, I'd pick the Shambolic Repubblic of Eyetieland anyday, rather than the UK. For zillions of reasons.
Hands down, mind.

quote:

It doesn't count nor hurt when coming from someone you rate pretty low.
Between you and me, if I were still among the cherubs and were given a choice, I'd pick the Shambolic Repubblic of Eyetieland anyday, rather than the UK. For zillions of reasons.
Hands down, mind.

Judging from the number of British expats living in Italy, I suspect many would agree.

I don't think he's really Italy bashing. There doesn't seem to be the same etiquette rule here in Rome at least which exists in other cities - that you let people get off the train before you get on. I observe people pushing their way on before others have gotten off every single morning on the Rome metro. I've even seen people urging their children to push onboard the train before the passengers getting off have alighted - so not only do they see nothing wrong with it - they're teaching it to the next generation as well.

However, when done in another culture ie. the London tube I'm sure this behaviour can be construed as "rude and pushy" as people in many other cultures are taught to wait until people get off and not push. But I'm convinced that Romans don't see this behaviour as rude or pushy as none of them have been told that there is any other way.

There are other 'etiquette rules' which are more closely followed in the Rome metro ie. giving your seat to a pregnant lady so all is not lost.

quote:

By Ramona: "...I've even seen people urging their children to push onboard the train before the passengers getting off have alighted - so not only do they see nothing wrong with it - they're teaching it to the next generation as well".

Although my own comment was done to lighten the mood on this thread - I meant every word of it.
It seems that others realise that certian behaviour is ingrained in the Italian psyche too. They really don't understand the need to wait or queue But I think that there are many GOOD Italian behaviours that far outweigh the few bad ones.

I for one wouldn't choose to live here if that weren't the case!

quote:

being elbowed in the tube not once, not twice, but three times

Sounds painful

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Alas, the EU isn't like a party you can leave when you get bored.

It looks like in the UK (well, in England actually. The Scots are soon grabbing their coats too, going their way, adopting the Euro and following in Ireland’s wake) the concept of “community of peers” is a rather alien one.
They seem to get along better with the Commonwealth, that is a community of nations whose structure is of the “me boss, you native” type, one where the wealth was by no means “common”.
Which is perfectly fine by me. They can leave at their convenience.

An historical analysis recently revealed that English sourness has got an inverse relation to the role played by England on a world scenario. The first increases as the latter disappears.

quote:

Originally posted by JAPrufrock:
It looks like in the UK (well, in England actually. The Scots are soon grabbing their coats too, going their way, adopting the Euro and following in Ireland’s wake) the concept of “community of peers” is a rather alien one.
They seem to get along better with the Commonwealth, that is a community of nations whose structure is of the “me boss, you native” type, one where the wealth was by no means “common”.
Which is perfectly fine by me. They can leave at their convenience.

An historical analysis recently revealed that English sourness has got an inverse relation to the role played by England on a world scenario. The first increases as the latter disappears.

?

Well, at least the author put a question mark after the first sentence... he didn't say "Italians ARE the rudest people on the planet".
So there's still hope, I guess.

Really, no need to take this too seriously, let's just assume DeeBee is right in that we don't understand British humour.
And if he was serious instead, whatever.