Recently, I heard that the average tuition for a year of studies in Italian Universities is between 600Euro and $1500Euro. That's very cheap comparred to here in Canada! I'd love to try and get a student visa and study my field of IT in Italy but wondering if this is true or not? Google has surprisingly failed me on my search for answers.

Any tips or nudges in the right direction, please? I do not speak Italian fluently yet, so I'm looking for programs/courses that are taught in English.

Thanks!

I'm not sure what exactly universities cost here for a foreigner but I think I'd be reluctant to come to Italy to study IT. IT is a field probably best studied in Canada or the U.S. where the biggest advances are being made and where you then have a chance of getting a well-paid job afterward. I could understand if you wanted to study art history or something like that - perhaps Italy would make sense. But Italian universities are not typically on the cutting edge in terms of offering access to the latest technologies and things and much of the information they rely on comes from elsewhere (there is no Silicon Valley here, for example). Also keep in mind that the organization is not like a U.S. (or I'd imagine, Canadian) university. Often because of bureacracy or bad organization, a degree that should take a certain number of years takes much longer. Professors typically do not have the 'open' relationships with students they have in North American universities and teaching is theoretical in nature and not hands-on. Also keep in mind that with the introduction of the Euro and subsequent inflation, Italy is very expensive (especially with the exchange rate). What you may save in tuition, you could end up paying for in cost of living. Unless I were studying Italian or Renaissance art or something specific to Italy, I would not come here for university. Italy's universities have a hard enough time preparing Italian graduates for the workforce. And there is no career counseling or planning here (my husband was in what was basically an MBA program and they never ONCE talked about CVs, cover letters, interviewing or anything practical to getting a job) - once you graduate, you are on your own. So yes they are cheaper but in a lot of ways, you get what you pay for. Perhaps a decent (theoretical) education but little practical, hands-on training that will lead to you getting a job.
Michelle

I would agree. I spoke to a girl who was apparently studying English at university. God knows who was teaching her, but she couldn't understand even the most simplest of things I was saying to her. If you study a language in the UK, you usually spend your 2nd year (of a 3 yr course) in the country whose language you are study. Often you attend a university or get a work placement, so that you are really fluent in that language. In Italy, such year-long placements don't exist, other than the Erasmus organisation which is more like a short holiday.

Unless the course you want has some degree of practical teaching, I wouldn't bother. In addition, can you name any high-tech Italian IT companies? I can't.

I recently met a guy who has just completed a degree in English at La Sapienza (bit public university in Rome.) He told me that all of his classes were taught in Italian. Lots of explaining English grammar in Italian, discussing English literature in Italian etc. So if a degree in English is not taught in English, how likely do you think it is that an IT degree would be taught in English?

That's right. The langauge commpnly spoken in Italy is Italian and therefore, with the exception of a few private universities (whose costs are exactly similar as those in Canada, I fear) all courses are taught in Italian.

Ramona, actually if one wants to learn the langauge, he ha to go to interpeters school. The "langauge" univerities are not geared towards langauge but only at literature anyway.

Also, quality of the IT studides in italy is not that low, and after the degree, one would be able to find a job in a company abroad (from Italy) like many Italians do. The point is that, considering all of the expenses, I am not so sure that it would be cheaper to live in Italy for several years just to save on univeristy fees and taxes (Itlaian public universities don't have fees, they have taxes paid to the Education ministry).
On the other hand, I know of cases of US students who moved to italy to get a medicine degree. Now, Italian medicine schools are pretty good and really dramatically cheaper than their US counterparts, so even with apartment rental and other stuff, this ghuy I am referring to ended up spending about half as much by studing in Italy. But he did not just have to learn perfect italian, he also had to learn the local dialect just to be able to talk to patients.

Alice,
My husband studied a bit of IT for his engineering studies (ingegneria gestionale with a focus on informatica - so like a mix of IT, engineering and business) and ALL of the case studies and things they used came from the U.S. I know because I'd have to sit there and help translate them for him and his classmates. There were no computers in his department or computer labs. I never once saw him do anything hands-on and like I mentioned absolutely no tie-in with how things work in the real world. I had to teach him how to write a cover letter and CV. Academically his schooling was VERY rigorous - I'm sure more rigorous than engineering in the U.S. - but when he finished he knew how to stand in front of a professor and give an oral exam, spouting facts, figures and formulas he had memorized. Going to university here seemed like a 'sofferenza' while in the U.S. there's an emphasis on it being an exciting time of change with endless possibilities when you finish. Obviously it's my opinion but I would recommend university here only for something Italy-focused. Coming here to study IT is like an Italian moving to Vancouver to study Renaissance art. I'm not saying the universities are 'bad' - it just doesn't seem practical.
Michelle

P.S. Medicine makes more sense. Anatomy is anatomy.

Oh, sorry, AliceTwain - actually the guy I'm talking about was studying interpreting (English and another non-Italian language.) He said that ALL his lectures and classes were in Italian and the professors were all Italians not native English speakers. He spent tons of time learning the theory behind English grammar, the history of the language etc - but in Italian! His English was kind of OK but not good. When I spoke it with him he quickly switched to Italian.

My boyfriend did a degree in English/American literature at a famous university in the Netherlands. The entire degree - the books they read, the lectures, the papers they wrote, their exams were entirely in English. And not just English but BBC "RP" English. During university, he made friends with an Irish guy and the Irish accent rubbed off a bit and he got marked down for "poor pronounciation." Needless to say - boyfriend came out both speaking and writing perfect English (although he never got rid of the Irish brogue influnce from his accent).

quote:

Originally posted by mschoen:
There were no computers in his department or computer labs. I never once saw him do anything hands-on and like I mentioned absolutely no tie-in with how things work in the real world.

I do not know where or when your husband got his degree. My friends who got their degrees in Milano from Statale in the past 5 years spent the bulk of their time at the labs (SILAB at via Comelico, I visited them there so I know that there were computers!).

Ramona, that was a problem of his univeristy, though. The Again, I have a friend with a degree in intepeting from Turin and she did all of the English lessons in real English and came out being an interpreter (she use to do "simultanea").

I did a degree in French and Italian at a UK university. Although I had already studied French, Italian was taken "ab initio". On the very first day we started studying Italian literature in Italian. I still remember that our first text was Fo's "Morte accidentale di un anarchico". Needless to say, I didn't understand very much of it

quote:

Originally posted by Alice Twain:
Ramona, that was a problem of his univeristy, though. The Again, I have a friend with a degree in intepeting from Turin and she did all of the English lessons in real English and came out being an interpreter (she use to do "simultanea").

This guy studied at La Sapienza which is the biggest university in Italy and the most prestigious/well known in Rome.

Gotta put in my two cents. I taught for a long time at SSIT (Scuola per Interpreti e Traduttori, although all of the schools now have a different name) in Pisa. All classes were taught in the specific language, with the exception of some "passive" translation classes, taught by Italians, and rightly so. Generally speaking, the level of my students' English was very good, even excellent in some cases. Many went on to work as interpreters or translators, or in the international sales offices of major companies.
As for Italian universities, it has been a long time since I graduated in the US, but I was completely satisfied with my daughter's education at the U. of Pisa. Most of her profs were great, helpful and supportive. She finished on time and found a job in Madrid within a week of graduating. She also did the Erasmus program and learned Spanish very well, otherwise she would not be working in Madrid.

Maybe La Sapienza just has a bad program?

quote:

My husband is a dr and during his medical training they did not do ANY practical work. In fact, he had never even done a dissection by the end of medical school (is most anglo saxon coutries you would do that during high school biology aged around 14 or so). Furthermore, italy seems to be one coutry that trains an excess of drs, so a lot of them do go overseas to find work. Most of my dr friends who have visited have found teh level of the training here to be less than expected for similar level, especially with regards to knowledge of procedures, equipment, responsibility and also funding levels.
Maybe it is worthwhile doing a medical degree in italy if it is easier to get in and costs less, but if you are comparing the quality that is another matter.

quote:

Originally posted by Alice Twain:

quote:

Originally posted by mschoen:
There were no computers in his department or computer labs. I never once saw him do anything hands-on and like I mentioned absolutely no tie-in with how things work in the real world.

I do not know where or when your husband got his degree. My friends who got their degrees in Milano from Statale in the past 5 years spent the bulk of their time at the labs (SILAB at via Comelico, I visited them there so I know that there were computers!).

Politecnico di Milano. He graduated five years ago. I would often go meet him at lunchtime and went a couple of times to watch him take exams and never saw a computer in any of the buildings, which I found strange for a school that prides itself on being so prestigious. Anything computer-related, he did at home. Again, I don't want to say the education here is bad but I think it would be silly to study IT in Italy if you aren't Italian. In North America now, IT is EVERYWHERE (to use a dumb example, the iPhone was launched in the U.S. not Italy). It's a part of everyday life. Here it is not.
Michelle

In my university we have poor computers room. There is a free wireless, but you have to own a laptop and the connection it is not steady. In the room of "informatica grafica" there are about 40 computers and you need to be authorized to access them. They are connected to the internet, but it is a classroom then sometimes it is closed for lessons/exams.

In 5 years of engineering I made labs only in the electrical measures courses (2 semester, about 10 times). We didn't have enough appliances to play alone, we were divided into groups where the best did all the job and the worse just wrote down the measures.

IBM is a huge IT company, of course italy cannot compete in the IT field with the USA or India.
About the fundamentals, in Italy I think they are better taught. I don't think you can do a lot of research without theoretical knowledges.

In the modern engineering courses, at least I am talking for my university, we had a course to learn how to write a technical paper, how to write a CV, ho to write a cover letter, how to write correctly measures units and other tech stuff. I this latter year I followed a course in Etica Ambientale where we learnt how to find good sources, how to read stats and graphs, the importance of communication with the citizen when making huge projects, the safety on a building site, the nimby phenomena,...

These are not compulsory courses, since they are not what you should know with a degree in engineering. You are given the ability to choose to do them or not, and I chose to attend them. My classmates refused to follow "unuseful courses" because they believe engineers are gods on earth and don't need to learn silly stuffs compared to the geek math they already know.

mschoen, ingegneria gestionale is not a real engineering course so it is obiouvs that they don't attend IT courses.

About the pratical stuff, I took a 2 months stage in my third year. I choose to take it at an electrical plant because it was the subject I liked the most. Now, to write my dissertation for the master I came back there and frankly I can't see how they could teach those stuffs at school. Engineering is really a wide discipline and making measures labs is unuseful unless you are going to work into one (and is a single possibility out of dozens).

Anyway over a period of 5 years I am going to take 6 months "on stage" (I could have done it longer), not paid (of course...).

My teachers are always available for questions and insights, you just have to ask. YOu can find colder teachers in the bigger universities, but if you go to the others it's very different.
Be careful to choose an university not too small (with teachers coming from other cities and not fully available) or too new (might have a bad organization).

quote:

Originally posted by Pola:


mschoen, ingegneria gestionale is not a real engineering course so it is obiouvs that they don't attend IT courses.

About the pratical stuff, I took a 2 months stage in my third year.

Pola,
I'll be sure to tell my husband that after all of those years of blood, sweat and tears to survive and graduate from engineering school with a 'full degree' (and then having to join the Ordine - not that I'm a fan of professional orders having been pressured to join the stupid journalism one, which as far as I'm concerned, means NOTHING) that he's not a 'real' engineer. I don't think he'll be too happy about that! As I mentioned in the other post, his focus was 'informatica' so actually I would imagine that he would have had to take some IT courses.

I'm not sure what the reference was to IBM but it's an American company based in, I think, White Plains, New York. Again, I never said it was horrible for an Italian to study IT in Italy. I just don't understand why an American or Canadian would come here when everything that is happening in IT is happening elsewhere and you are going to read case studies that come out of North America. The friends I've met who have been happiest with their educations here have studied more humanistic subjects. But that's my opinion.
Michelle

P.S. It's called an 'internship.' A 'stage' is a 'palcoscenico' in English and if you say that outside Italy, nobody will understand you. I say that nicely - just for your own benefit.

quote:

Originally posted by mschoen:
Pola,
I'll be sure to tell my husband that after all of those years of blood, sweat and tears to survive and graduate from engineering school with a 'full degree' (and then having to join the Ordine - not that I'm a fan of professional orders having been pressured to join the stupid journalism one, which as far as I'm concerned, means NOTHING) that he's not a 'real' engineer.

I didn't say that he made a fake course, I just said that is the less technical course with the name "engineering" in the name. At least in Italy, we tend to agree to sai ah-ah gestionale.
It's more economic than tecnhical, call it economy!

quote:

I'm not sure what the reference was to IBM

My mistake, I was thinking about Olivetti, I think I saw IBM-Olivetti somewhere and wrote only the wrong part. (anyway "Olivetti? Ma non facciamo ridere" compared to any big IT company).

quote:

P.S. It's called an 'internship.' A 'stage' is a 'palcoscenico' in English and if you say that outside Italy, nobody will understand you. I say that nicely - just for your own benefit.

Every time I made this mistake and every time I redo it. Will I ever learn it?

Yes, they say gestionale is definitely more management or business-oriented but my husband is a total math and computer geek. Engineering school was a better fit for him than, say, Bocconi. I was actually being half tongue-in-cheek - I knew you weren't saying the degree was a fake. I personally couldn't care less about all of the focus on what your title is, what school you did, what order you join. As long as you do a good job, that's fine with me.

The stage/internship mistake is a common one. Try to make a word association or put something in your head to remember it. For example, Bill Clinton had sex with a White House intern. Part of her internship was spent under a desk in the oval office. Not sure if that's the image you had in mind but maybe it'll help you remember.
Michelle

quote:

Originally posted by Ramona:
This guy studied at La Sapienza which is the biggest university in Italy and the most prestigious/well known in Rome.

Largest=/biggest. Statale is the largest univesrity in Milano, but I would be hard pressed to call it the biggest, especially when it comes to foreign langauges!

quote:

Originally posted by Alice Twain:
Largest=/biggest. Statale is the largest univesrity in Milano, but I would be hard pressed to call it the biggest, especially when it comes to foreign langauges!

Large and big are synonyms. They mean the same thing =grande. I've been told that La Sapienza is the "piu grande" university in Italy - I assume that that was based on student numbers.

(sorry I think this must be a language issue...)

Let me rephrase: largest or biggest =/ best. Sapienza and Statale have more studennts of any othe runiveirsty because they are localted in the two biggest cities of Italy, not because they are anyting special. Actually, their sheer size make them extremely inefficient.