Hi, there's a good chance that we will be transferred to Florence for DH's work. While I want the kids (7,5) to go native, they don't speak Italian. I read somewhere that if they go to public school, they'll be placed with like students in class, if the town/school has the resources. Is it better to put them in Catholic school?

Please advise. Thank you!

If the school they go to has the resources, they may get Italian language support: a teacher working alongside the regular class teacher helping the children to understand and use Italian. I've also heard of some schools providing extra Italian tuition for foreign children.

Otherwise, your children will probably get lumped in with the other kids and have to manage as best as they can. The good news is that children seem very good at this, and reach fluency in a very short time. You could help them a lot by making sure they have some Italian lessons before you come, so at least they can say and understand a little before starting school.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Catholic" school. Private school? State education is unofficially Catholic in the sense that kids get religion lessons, and I have never seen a classroom without a crucifix in it.

While the public schools may be Catholic in orientation I think there is a big difference between the private Catholic schools and public schools. Our kids in Catholic school, have 3 hours of religion and on of catechismo each week. Plus the occasional mass and semi obligatory masses at the church for various purposes. I don't think the public schools have any of that. As far as language help is concerned, I think this bears some research. Our school as far as I know doesn't have much in the way of resources to help kids with language issues and few of the teachers speak English. The public schools may have more in this area.

Practical advantages at our school are that for a small amount of additional money the kids can be at school until 4:30 and they also don't go to school on Saturday. There is also a bit higher level of parent influence on what happens in the class room, but as in all Italian schools there is much less than in the US. We also think the level of education is higher, but that is debatable and depends on the individual school and teacher.

Our two are 8 and 6, by the way, and speak fluent Italian because of their mom.

My kids go to a catholic school. When my 13 year old started at age 8 he didn't know a word of italian. We had him privately tutored 5 days a week for about 5 hours at a time in italian and other subjects for about a month and a half when we arrived. Then for a month or so he had his tutor with him all day in school until he was comfortable. We had to pay for the tutor because the catholic school didn't provide anything like that and they also wanted him to understand some italian before he started (they did give us a list of availabe teachers including the women that taught my son. She was an excellent teacher and I will always be grateful to her).
My younger son was 2 when he started at the scoula materna so we didn't worry about the italian as much with him as with my older son. Thankfully they both transitioned quite well in this school.
The school is small and the kids keep the same teacher between 1rst and 6th grade. I don't know if they do that in the public schools here. Also I like the fact that my kids aren't lost in a big school with lots of kids.
Religion classes are optional in my kids school but going to mass or other things at the church is not. (usually this is the time the kids have a chance to goof off ).
Also they don't have school on saturdays and we also have the option to pay a little extra to keep them in school awhile longer at the end of the day.

Also, although it probally depends on where you live, I wouldn't count on public resouces to help your kids. There are incredibly long wait lists and you could be waiting forever.

quote:

Originally posted by trish:
Hi, there's a good chance that we will be transferred to Florence for DH's work. While I want the kids (7,5) to go native, they don't speak Italian. I read somewhere that if they go to public school, they'll be placed with like students in class, if the town/school has the resources. Is it better to put them in Catholic school?

Please advise. Thank you!

My daughter attends Istituto Monticelli at Scuola Materna. It is in the Monticelli area of Florence near Isolotto. It is a private Catholic School. She is three - you can see more about it on her blog if you want pictures.
Anyway, she had no Italian in September and it is slowly improving now, but 2 of the assistants at this school speak reasonable English and she can understand Italian well after 3 sporadic months there - we have had a lot of sickness.

A friend also sends her 4 and 6 year old there. They have kept the 6 year old in Materna with her brother which seems to be working quite well, while her Italian improves. Otherwise she would be in year 1 of elementare.

Others I know send their children to both public and private school but public seems to work better for those with one parent who is Italian. It is also easier paperwork-wise to send a child to Private. You pay the inscription and they are in, pretty much! You also have Kindergarten - a private school which caters for English speakers and the International School which is ostensibly English speaking but a large number of wealthy Italians send their children their so a lot is done in Italian.

Whatever route you decide to take remember that inscription starts in January and finishes in March for public schools. Most private schools will have filled all their places too by this stage. My daughters school is large for a private school so usually has places available.

HTH

quote:

Originally posted by alyson:
public seems to work better for those with one parent who is Italian.

Can you elaborate on this? Is this because of language issues?

I think it is because one parent already knows the system and is relaxed with it, nothing more really! I know people who have had language help for their kids in the state schools and this seems to be non-existent in the private, Catholic schools, so it isn't a language thing.

You also find more English speaking families at the private schools - its probably a vicious circle - you send your kid to a private school as the paperwork is easier, then it becomes known that English speaking families attend, so more sign-up.

Thank you all for your input, I got more info from you than in the 3 weeks of internet research!

Some Q: How much does private Catholic school cost and how much is the extra (to 4:30pm) stay? do they do the school meant in 6 days in 5?

Also, if registration happens Jan-March, what can I do if we land there in April? can i home-school the kids (Italian tutor, Math, etc) until September?

I pay €120/month as the contribution. €175 was the yearly subscription. It varies but this is average. Meals are provided by the comune at €3.90/day and are 3 courses with water only. You also send a child doing a full day in with a snack and a small carton of drink. My school is Monday - Friday only.

Most schools also have a gym kit - €39 for tee, jacket and pants and grembulino (overalls) €34 for two which my school provide.

The core hours vary but at mine it is 9.00 a.m. to 4.00 p.m. with the ability to drop off earlier (8.15 a.m. I think - we are always late!) and pick-up by about 4.30 p.m. at no extra cost. Again, different schools may have a different policy. You can also pick-up before lunch - 12.30 or after lunch 1.30, but the monthly cost stays the same. This is because the school receives no other funding other than what it receives from parents. Because of this each term we take in 2 liquid soaps and 10 small tissue packets. Each month we take in 2 rolls of kitchen paper.

As for home schooling, I did this with my son (12 years old) for the first year we were here with no problems and no need to notify anyone. So it can be done. But having said that I put my daughters name down for her school in May without a problem. The ones in centro are much harder to get into though, so if that is where you are looking you may be homeschooling or just adjusting to life in Italy for a couple of months. I think school finishes for summer end June/early July anyway. HTH

We put our 8 year old directly into public school with teachers who did not speak English. We hired a tutor for two hours a week to help with his homework and language. He did beautifully and now, a year later, is fluent. Italians say he speaks it as a mother tongue, flawlessly.

We are back in the states now. To maintain his language we have a young woman from Milano who tutors him two hours a week. She says he is metà e metà--half Italian/half Americano.

By the end of the year in Italy he was doing better in grammar than his classmates, received good grades in all subjects, did not want to return to the US.

We are advocates of total immersion. Your kids are young enough that they will be sponges. Give them a chance to become bilingual and have a great cultural experience.

Something I don't understand and have argued about with my wife. The law says your kids must be in school. Yet the schools say they only allow registration up to a certain date. So if you arrive after the date you can't put them in school? In my mind the public school in their district must accept them if the law says they must be in school.

I have posted in the past regarding finding an elementary school in Florence for my 6 year old. I looked at both the public school a block from my house and searched private schools all over Florence.I finally chose a school and I couldn't be happier!
It is a private Catholic elementary through middle school (run by a convent, but with lay teachers and I'm not Catholic or religious)called Conservatorio Santa Maria degli Angeli http://www.scuola-s-m-angeli.it/. It's located in the center of Florence near Piazza San Marco and costs 250 euro a month which includes lunch, the classic three course meal, which is cooked on premise.
Why do I like this school?
The school is a conservatory so there is music and theatre and art in the curriculum. They have their homeroom teacher who teaches all the major subjects and follows them through to the fifth grade, but all of the other teachers in the school are involved teaching the extra subjects. The second grade teacher teaches theatre, the fifth grade teacher teaches an extra reading and writing lab, etc. All of the teachers meet to discuss the different classes and work with each class as a team. The atmosphere is incredibly warm and loving. My son is very reserved and at times has difficulty detaching from me in the morning. They take him, heaving sobs and all, to the front office where he gets hugs and attention until he is ready to face his class. There is an Australian couple who arrived in Italy two weeks before the first day of school. Their two children ages 8 and 6 were thrown in immediately. Though I'm sure it was stressful for the kids, they have done brilliantly from day one. I do think a big part of their success is that the parents have been very active about setting up play-dates with other children and setting up conversation classes for themselves with the other parents. They ensured that they had a social life in Italian right from the start. Another big plus is that there are on-site after school programs for dance, soccer, tennis, karate and piano. This means you don't have to waste time travelling to another location if you want your child to participate in extra curricular activities. My son stays after school twice a week for Karate.

Can you tell I like this school? Finding a school with the right fit for my son was so important for me. He loves his school because he feels safe there and is doing really well. By learning to read in Italian, he transferred all that knowledge and three months after entering first grade he is reading both Italian and English and his English is well above grade level!

I think Florence offers a good variety of schools so in the end it comes down to what will fit your family best. Good luck in your search!

Amy

quote:

Originally posted by jhelm:
Something I don't understand and have argued about with my wife. The law says your kids must be in school. Yet the schools say they only allow registration up to a certain date. So if you arrive after the date you can't put them in school? In my mind the public school in their district must accept them if the law says they must be in school.

Jim, I know that is what is said but when we tried to register Casey in March prior to starting school in Sept., we were told to wait until August. We ended up enrolling him just a couple weeks before school started. No problem. Also, Casey went from 8:30 - 4:40 M-F with no Saturday school.

We are thinking of returning as he very much wants to. He misses Italy, school and his friends there.

quote:

We are thinking of returning as he very much wants to. He misses Italy, school and his friends there.

What is it that he misses in the Italian school or Italy in general that he doesn't have available to him in the US. It's the ongoing question in my mind, what would we miss if we left.

quote:

Originally posted by jhelm:

quote:

We are thinking of returning as he very much wants to. He misses Italy, school and his friends there.

What is it that he misses in the Italian school or Italy in general that he doesn't have available to him in the US. It's the ongoing question in my mind, what would we miss if we left.

Jim, I can't explain a lot of it and maybe he can't either. I think among other things it is the simplicity of life as compared to the rush, hectic environment here. He misses the piazza and freedom to explore. He misses his friends, although he is rich in friends here, there seems to be a difference in quality. Why he misses the classroom I am at a loss to say as there is so much more creativity in the class here. He is in classes for the very highly gifted (seminar) so you would think that he would prefer this to the structure of Italy.

Oh--I know he misses the lunches.

Your question is interesting and I don't have many answers. Since you, too, are from the SD area, our kids experience similar lives in the US. When I figure it out, I'll let you know.

This blog entry I'm a Country Boy is a little about this.

My 8-year-old son, who has attended school both in Italy and NY, says someone might like school better here because the kids at school are a lot more affectionate...when there's a new student everyone hugs and kisses them, everyday! He got the "king's welcome" when we returned in March after being away for 8 months. NO ONE feels left out, unpopular or shunned. Bullying is unheard of in our school. Also, because the students travel together from first through fifth grade, they really seem to form strong relationships. Ours is a little local school in a small town with very limited resources...but the kids are SUPER!

I know that the level of affections is part of the difference. The teachers are not afraid to hug the kids and the kids seems to hug each other much more than I can remember in San Diego. Also having the same teacher and classmates for 5 years has many advantages. It's also good for the parents as there is a stable group of parents that we can get to know and with some form good friendships. I don't know how our kids would react if we took them back to California.

FWIW, our experiences with our daughter in Italian schools is recounted in detail at http://www.beginningwithi.com/italy/living/education.html

Your mileage will hopefully vary! My conclusion for the time being is that if you have the kind of learning style which fits well with the most common teaching style here, you'll do great and come out a highly cultured, well-educated individual.

Anything else, e.g. dyslexia, or merely a different learning style, and you are most likely screwed - most teachers won't know and won't care what to do with you.

A couple of details to put in better focus.
in first place, Italian public schools are NOT catholic, not even unofficially. While it is true that, due to the "concordato" law between the catholic church and the Italians tate, Catholic religion is provided, this is not mandatory and extracurricular. Any school that has children under the age of 18 is supposed to provide alternative lessons for the kids option out of catholic religion, which may be an alternative subject of any kind (chosen by the school) or "individual study" hours, with the presence of a teacher as supervisor. The number of kids following cathlic religion lessons varies hugely: in some areas it neares the 100%, while in some schools the majority of kids opt out (in my high school, soon after the new "concordato" was signed, only about the 10-20% of students opted in).
Also, not all private schools are catholic. although about the 90% of private schools are catholic, there is a 10% tht is not: it may be of a different religious orientation as well as non-religious at all. If you decide to opt for a private school but don't feel at ease with catholicism, just look for a school without a religious orientation or for a school with a religious orientation that's more similar to the family's.
Finally, the deadline is for "preiscrizione", pre-enrollment that is needed by the school to define its orientative budget, how many children will each class count etc. After this deadline, though, any child or parent ois free to opt out of the school and get into another, since all PUBLIC schools are requierd to accept each and every child that gets enrolled. This is not as true for private schools, which may turn down children. And children are not required to go to school anymore as well: the school reform by former minister Letizia Brichetto Arnaboldi in Moratti made it possible to opt for homeschooling, although children will still be required to go through the standard examinations at the end of each of the several "cycles" of schooling and which take place in public schools.

Come dicevo...

«Students Know More Than Teachers»
Test using same questions that OECD asked students. Only 36% able to explain why dough rises

http://www.corriere.it/english/articoli/2008/01_Gennaio/04/pezzo.shtml

We live in Rome area and are thinking of home-schooling 16 yr old boy. Is there a network out there for support to parents who have decided to go this route?