We are coming to Italy for a 9 month sabbatical period and our 5 year old daughter is enrolled in a private preschool. We were told to bring her vaccination card. Until this point, she has had no vaccinations for personal and medical reasons. In California, we have signed the form at her future elementary school allowing her to attend without vaccinations. Is this at all possible in Italy? Even if we begin the obligatory vaccinations now, they will not be complete before we leave in 3 months. Has anyone had any luck with this?

I'm certainly not an expert on the subject, but I have talked to some Italians about this and it was my understanding that the system here works very much like the US. If you have personal or medical reasons for not getting your child vaccinated I think you need a signature from a doctor and its OK. I would contact the commune where you'll be living and ask them directly, but I know its not unheard of here to not have your kids vaccinated. Good luck.

Thanks Anne,
We may have to just take our chances. I'm not sure how to contact the commune as of now I speak very very little Italian. I'm hoping that it is an individual's decision as it is here. If anyone knows otherwise, please advise. Thanks again.

This is a very interesting topic. I am so glad it was raised.

IF in fact there is possibility to avoid the vaccinations, I completely support and applaud your decision to pursue that. Like you, Sabina, I have learned lots of reasons why it is better to avoid them.

however, I do have a few suggestions on how to equip yourself to take on the bureaucracy.

1. get the original documents/ letters from your MD in the States stating the medical neccessity of not vaccinating your children, get it notarized and apostilled, and translated into Italian.

2. Talk to your local consulate ask advice. Under no circumstances let on that it is even an option for your children to be vaccinated, when discussing it , really stand firm that your MD in the States, who knows your children and the medical history of them and your family, has advised against it. See what they suggest.

3. if necessary you may need to go to a local American consulate in Italy to verify the autheniticity of your documents.


I hope this helps.

I shudder to think that anyone would need to get "all" the required vaccinations in a 3 month period. Talk about immune assault.

But there are homeopathic antidotes which are available to offset the side effects, so there are options, even if the Italians don't agree.

good luck!

In California you have the option of personal choice, not only the medical option.
Hopefully that exists here in Italy, too.

all the vaccs in 3 months is scary to think about.
Hopefully you can do NONE if you so choose.

An important thing to keep in mind when talking to any 'authorities': they will often tell you that it is a legal requirement when it is actually not--they do this a lot in the States because often it is not understood that there is a choice. So check it out in as many ways as you can if you get a
'no' initially.

And, yes, there are homeopathics to help whether you vaccinate and want to prevent any bad reactions, as well as homeopathics to treat or prevent the diseases after exposure or during an epidemic.

-Sada Sat
(homeopath)
www.yogaborgo.com

Thankyou both for the homeopathic info. My reasons for not vaccinating her so far are more personal than medical, as I am a chiropractor and have read far too many journal articles describing horrific short-term and long-term reactions over the years. I also have felt safe while living in coastal California. I believe the "required" shots in Italy are polio, tetanus, diptheria and Hepatitis B. Does this sound right? I am considering the possiblity of starting her on the polio vaccine, as traveling does increase the risk of exposure. She has a check up scheduled for next week and I will see what I can get from her MD. She has never pushed for the vaccines herself and maybe she'd be willing to write something up. Even if we start her on some of them, I'm hoping we can show up at the school and "pray" for some understanding from the nuns. Who knows? Is it possible they could see a mother's choice over the law?

Don't count on a person in a municipio making a decision without a bollo of some type.

Bureaucracy is one of those things that protects the bureaucrat from making policy. so, if you are stuck with a person who does not want to take a chance, you will be out of luck with no recourse.

I wonder, if you start with one vaccine, what argument will you give for not giving all the vaccines? just a thought.

To fully grasp the arbitrary nature of italian bureaucracy, there are lots of stories in the various forums here.

I hope you find a solution you are comfortable with, I know how I would handle it and have made my suggestion. If you are concerned with the language difficulty, speaking to the consulate here in the states, would bypass that, and they might already know about the California options and truly understand the nuances of a mother's interest and justifiable right to protect her children.

Why wait to fight the battle till you are there?

I have found that any document with enough apostilles, signatures, stamps, etc from a higher up office (and the Italian consulate, the American Consulate in Italy ) with the apostille plus those bl**dy marco bolli is basically passed through un questioned.

and besides, who but the American Consulate in Italy would be better equipped to advise you how to protect your freedoms to choose in this foreign land??

I have been shocked. No one wants to be the fall guy, it seems to me, and without those signatures, etc. they must make the "decision" equivalent to policy and unless you have a person (and they exist in Italy for sure) willing to make those decisions, you are left on your own, with no language skills and a child you want to enroll in school.

I have a lot of sympathy for your situation. I simply don't think you are the first person with this question and am sure it's been solved before.

Good luck.

Hi Sabina,

ask your md to get you vaccines that don't contain thimerisol which is a form of mercury. In california they are completely banning it soon and the drug companies are having to find another way to protect against bacteria growing in the vaccines. They already make vaccines without it but they are still regularly sold with the thimerisol.

Also, if you want more info on how to be sure you're getting a vaccine from a 'safe' lot you can check at the National Vaccine Information center. I think their web address is www.oneshot.com' but you can definitely google them. They have great updated info.
-Sada Sat
www.yogaborgo.com

As a chiropractor, aren't you allowed to make that decision anyway? someone confirm this for me, but aren't chiropractors kind of respected in Italy and what they say is likewise respected.

If I am right, you might have found your get out of jail card right there!!

I'm sure this is not the case for everyone, but when I went to enroll my kids in public school in Florence (last september) I was never asked for their medical records. I had the records with me, but never took them out of the file because it never came up. I assumed that this issue was not as rigid as it is in the US - or maybe the guy I was dealing with just let it slip by mistake? But maybe you'll never be asked...

quote:

Originally posted by efe:
I'm sure this is not the case for everyone, but when I went to enroll my kids in public school in Florence (last september) I was never asked for their medical records. I had the records with me, but never took them out of the file because it never came up. I assumed that this issue was not as rigid as it is in the US - or maybe the guy I was dealing with just let it slip by mistake? But maybe you'll never be asked...

It may vary in different areas, but I wouldn't count on this as an escape route. Throughout my daughter's elementary years all parents received routine reminders that kids needed this or that vaccination, and would be kept out of school if it wasn't attended to quickly. Some were administered directly at the school, so if this is a potential problem, make sure you tell EVERYBODY at the school that your kid cannot have vaccinations, and make sure he or she knows not to get bullied into it.

Yes, we too were asked for proof of vaccination by the school and by the commune when we went to get the kids' carta di sanitarita. I was also asked for them this summer when the kids went to camp. I would make sure that the child's teachers and the school administration, the pediatrician in Italy and the commune know the situation.

Bravo on avoiding vaccines... for one.

One of the greatest dangers of vaccines in the US is that they are preserved with thimerosal, which contains mercury. Fortunately (as is the case with many other dangerous substances), thimerosal has been banned in the EU, along with hormones in livestock and many other harmful chemicals embraced in the US. So at least if you do have to vaccinate, which it seems you won't according to people who know better than me, you won't have to worry about mercury poisoning or worse (autism).

I am so glad to see this thread as I am in a similar position.People have such strong feelings about vaxes that I have been afraid to talk about it,so its nice to see this conversation.I have a 5 yo who has never been vaccinated and we are in Ca & soon coming to Europe.BUT I am going to enroll my child in local school in Spain,not Italy ( for this winter).

Someone on the vax forum at mothering mag might be able to help with your specific question:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/

They are REALLY hardcore anti vax in that particular forum ( some have had children & loved ones who have been damaged for life)which I find too over the top,but they do have access to lots of info.Someone there put me in touch with a group in Spain that was anti vax and helpful with the school situation.

I was happy to hear it should not be a problem in Spain.It is similar to Ca that if you do not know your rights ,one will think that it is against the law to not vax for school,but if you know everything ,you will find that its easy to not vax.

I am not sure what it is in Italy ,but perhaps they can lead you to the anti vax organization in Italy that would know the rules and how to get around them or someone else that can help.I think many in Europe are as concerned about vax & thier problems as people in Ca.

I have been rereading lots of vax info trying to decide what to do now that we are taking a trip around the world.I did consider getting the polio vax because they give the oral vax in Spain still ( its illegal in the US because they found it causes more cases than protects).After reading lots of research ( by MD's) that show that those who get the oral or dead polio vax are both more at risk than the child who gets neither,I decided to pass on that.There is also an interesting book that shows how things like sugar impacts who gets polio and ways to help prevent it.

I will continue doing reading and researching on this topic ( because we are going around the world) but I feel confident not doing any vaccines for Europe.I have many friends who took non vaxxed kids to Europe with no problem.My daughter's Godfather is a well known alternative health practitioner from France and his American grandchildren spend every summer there.

My child was an extremely long extended nurser ,so I am certain that she picked up lots of immunity from me as I had lots of the diseases ( like measles,mumps etc as well helpatitus and whooping cough etc) and she is a really healthy type that never gets sick.
But she is also an ectomorph,so at 34 lbs she will still be very impacted by vaccines ,thus I have a hard time putting those poisons into her.I think its always a tough decision,especially when you travel.

I wanted to get titres done on my daughter to find out what immunity she does have,but my Ped refused to do it.I know some breast fed families who have immunity to many diseases that no one had ( titres showed such).So you might think of doing that.I am going to try again in Europe if I can.

I am hoping you will find a way around it like we are going to.We have talked to the school & they did not even mention vaccines (yet) & we are registered.

You know even in the school here they ask for vaccines and pretend like they are *required*for ALL.I know many who got them who had no idea that they had a choice.The forms here don't say that one can easily opt out by just refusing,but imply the opposite.You need to get the inside story from informed anti vax families there.Perhaps talk to Chiropractors with families there too?