"Un quarto dei genitori di Veneto e Friuli-Venezia Giulia ritiene che la presenza degli studenti immigrati non faccia rispettare i tempi del programma scolastico, soprattutto per problemi legati alla lingua, a danno quindi dei loro figli.
L'indicazione arriva da una ricerca della Demos per Il Gazzettino, dalla quale emerge appunto che gli 'scontenti' sono il 27% che chiedono una separazione di classi tra gli italiani e gli immigrati. Gli studenti immigrati incidono per il 9% nel Veneto e per l'8% in Friuli sul totale degli iscritti (la media italiana e' del 6%). In particolare sono l'11% in Veneto e il 9% in Friuli (in Italia del 7%) per la scuola primaria e secondaria di primo grado, con punte del 12% a Vicenza e 14% a Treviso."
http://www.aduc.it/dyn/immigrazione/noti.php?id=203493

At the age my daughter is - 3 1/2 - I think it doesn't make much difference what language they speak as they don't really learn too much other than the art of socialising and going to school. However, I can see how it could be a problem in later years. One way my school gets around this is to keep children down a year until their Italian improves enough for them to participate in the lessons. Hopefully this won't affect Antonia as she is still in Materna and her Italian is improving everyday.

I think separating older children off could work, as long as it didn't look like "segregation" because they are immigrants, rather as a way to help them improve their Italian skills. There is no way I would put my nearly 13 year old in an Italian speaking school for instance as I know he wouldn't be able to do the work because of the language barrier.

So, I can see where this is coming from, but I guess the tone is what is important. I also realise they probably aren't talking about English speaking immigrants either. Funny though, everyone at school knows who my daughter is - not sure why!

It's really true what they say. Children learn another language easily and quickly. I speak first-hand, having had this experience with our son who learned French, then English, then Italian, each language in a matter of weeks, not months! In order to facilitate learning, the child must absolutely be exposed daily to playmates his own age who speak the language. There is no other way.

If they are segregated, the immigrant children won't be having Italian playmates. They'll have only other immigrant children playmates.

As Alyson says, I doubt these Italian parents are thinking about the feelings and education of the immigrant children - sounds like pure xenophobia. I'm all for Italian as a second language classes for kids who've just arrived here. But these kids should also take part in general classes with all the other kids and kids who've been here since they were babies (or were born here) most certainly should be in general classes. Anything else is Jim Crow Italian style.

A workmate told me that at her son's school (he's 7) the Italian parents staged a protest on the first day as there were too many immigrant kids in the class. They tried to put all the immigrant kids in one class and the "Italian" kids in another. She seemed to think this was perfectly OK. Not sure what happenned in the end.

quote:

A workmate told me that at her son's school (he's 7) the Italian parents staged a protest on the first day as there were too many immigrant kids in the class.

Nothing makes a child feel welcome like angry parents protesting his presence in "their children's" school. Sounds like 1960's in Alabama all over again.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill 2:
If they are segregated, the immigrant children won't be having Italian playmates. They'll have only other immigrant children playmates.

But hopefully they would be in the playground together. Having said that if they are already being treated differently and in their own groups, maybe not. Kids play in gangs anyway, so this would be a good way of reinforcing this behaviour!!

This also makes me realise how important it is for me to get my Italian up to speed - I don't want my daughter suffering because I don't speak Italian well enough.

A friend of mine teaches teenagers - she says they pretty much sort themselves out into race/nationality groups! The school don't seem at all interested in getting them to mix - in fact a lot of the teachers seem afraid of the foreign students.

quote:

A friend of mine teaches teenagers - she says they pretty much sort themselves out into race/nationality groups!

In the article the parents favor separate classrooms. Maybe even separate schools?

I don't know how much it happens here, but in the UK there are a lot of religious schools set-up by immigrant parents outside of the usual state, Catholic and C of E schools supported by the state.

The purpose is to teach that particular faith but it also encourages the children to only speak in their mother-tongue language and be part of that culture. The kids that attend these schools in the UK are in no way a part of the main culture we have there and are very much segregated by how they dress, talk and, I imagine, think. It is very unhealthy and causes a lot of resentment, in my experience, in the areas where they are set up. If this were to happen here, but at the instigation of Italian parents rather than immigrant parents I hate to think what the outcome would be.

One reaction to desegregation in the States was a rash of new protestant church-sponsored private schools. The names often contain the words Christian Academy or Christian School. These are exclusively white. Kind of the reverse of the segregated immigrant schools you describe in UK, but with similar effect.

I hope Italians don't set up separate schools for immigrants. It would undermine the government's stated goal of integrating immigrants into Italian culture.

Is this also the reason for all the homeschooling in the US? I remember seeing a programme about it. All these kids were homeschooled until they were teenagers then enrolled in this really exclusive boarding school for what I would term Evangelical Christians - very fundamental in their beliefs and the Church and its beliefs determined how they led their lives - the idea was to then school all these kids for public office in the Federal govt - is that the right term for working with the President?! They obviously believe that the current form of govt. is in for a while as most of these kids were 14 years +!!

This is an excerpt from the Ministero della Pubblica Istruzione website:

"La scuola italiana si è orientata fin da subito a inserire gli alunni di cittadinanza non italiana nella scuola comune, all'interno delle normali classi scolastiche ed evitando la costruzione di luoghi di apprendimento separati [...]La scuola italiana sceglie di adottare la prospettiva interculturale - ovvero la promozione del dialogo e del confronto tra le culture - per tutti gli alunni e a tutti i livelli [...] Si tratta di assumere la diversità come paradigma dell'identità stessa della scuola nel pluralismo, come occasione per aprire l'intero sistema a tutte le differenze (di provenienza, di genere, livello sociale, storia scolastica).

It seems that segregation is not an option.

Here's the link if you're interested:

http://www.pubblica.istruzione.it/news/2007/allegati/pu...one_intercultura.pdf

But the Ministero della Pubblica Istruzione is appointed by the elected government, and if the majority of people vote for politicians who support segregation of immigrants, the new Ministero della Pubblica Istruzione can change that policy in a heartbeat.

You're probably right, on the other hand the right was in power for 5 years and they didn't do anything to stop intercultural classes did they?

Not as far as I know, but they may not have seen this poll back then.

Don't forget that the poll says "un quarto"; there is a 75% that does not agree. Let's hope this counts for something.

A motivated, disgruntled minority often achieves greater political results than an apathetic, complacent majority.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill 2:
A motivated, disgruntled minority often achieves greater political results than an apathetic, complacent majority.

Are we talking in general or do you actually think someday we will have segregation in Italian schools? If a minority of disgruntled parents have some politician do what they want, someone else, one of those complacent and apathetic from the majority will wake up and object to such a policy, and even question its compliance with the provisions of our Constitution.

Yes, but when has the Italian government ever done anything that the people actually wanted?

quote:

Originally posted by Grtngs:
If a minority of disgruntled parents have some politician do what they want, someone else, one of those complacent and apathetic from the majority will wake up and object to such a policy, and even question its compliance with the provisions of our Constitution.

It's important to dream for a better future. This is not a very realistic dream.

[/QUOTE]It's important to dream for a better future. This is not a very realistic dream.[/QUOTE]

Sorry I don't understand what dreams have to do with this. You talk like it's already a done deal...it's just a poll!
Anyway I take it as a compliment for being optimistic. Thanks

No, it's only a poll. I never said it was a done deal.

Optimism is good- I'm an optimist myself. But I'm also an immigrant, so I don't dismiss racist trends like this without a care, as you do.

Do this minority group of people who would like to see this type of segregation in schools want it in order to get immigrant children "up to speed" or to stop their children from being "slowed down"?

Hmm...