Alice: I was at Mangigalli for a birth and pregnancy related problems. I wanted to go to San Raffalle to where my OBYN works out of but Policlinico happened to be the closest hospital to my apartment and I was in too much pain to make it to the other hospital.
Then after i was checked into Mangigalli after spending over 24 horrible hours in pain at the awful emergency room in Policlinico (with one trip to Mangigalli to take aspirin in the i.v. and then returned to Policlinco because they couldnt find an immediate problem with my twins)I was returned back to Mangiagalli where they finally gave me pain relief. I was crying in a wheelchair alone in a hallway when I was yelled at by a nurse about why the hell I was back at Mangiagalli. When I broke down and cried and complained to the doctor they finally gave me a bed, gave me real pain medication, found that I had a fever, and did an ultrasound after more than 24 hours!!
Things slowly got better and I decided to stay at Mangiagalli because I kept being told that this was the best hospital for pregnant women and babies. And when things turned even worse I trusted them enough to stay with them an took the advise that they gave me. A lot of what I know now was that they down played things going wrong with certain procedures thay wanted me to have done. I don't know if it is a cockiness that they have because they are considered in such high reputation. But everything wrong that could happen to me happened and worse because I trusted them. I ended up losing my twins when I could of avoided that.

www.anythingbutdull.blogspot.com

I'm really sorry, Autumn.

quote:

Did any of you read the Naomi Wolf book 'Misconceptions'? It got a lot of bad reviews, but I wonder if it would be useful for someone preparing themselves for childbirth? I am a big fan of the 'Beauty Myth'.

Yes I did. Great book.

quote:

Actually in the US the rate is 27.5% and in Italy it is around 35% and Italy has far fewer malpractice lawsuits than the US!

As I mentioned, it may be 27% overall, but in most major hospitals/metro areas, it is higher, more like 35%.

I personally think people are fooling themselves if they think c-sections are easier than vaginal births. It is major surgery and carries a longer recovery time and a much higher risk for infection. After a vag birth, you can leave (i.e., get up and walk out of thehospital) as soon as the placenta passes. Of course, the doctors will want you to stay because then they can bill more for the insurance if they can show you took a bed for a day or two, but, assuming one had a healthy birth, this is completely unnecessary.

Incidentally, a baby passes through a birth canal for a reason. The passage (and ultimate squeeze!) stimulates many nerve endings, etc. in the baby.

Can you tell I am a natural advocate?

Autum, on the other hand I would never go to San Raffaele again. They treated horribly my grandfather who was cured there for a cancer. Ultimately he would have died anyway, but the terrible care he received while cured there made his final years miserably painful both because of totally wrong therapies and an absolute lack of pain cure.

This is a very intense and interesting thread. I am 29 weeks along and have been doing and feeling great. I chose not to go to the Consultorio for my gynecological care and have a private gynecologist that was recommended to me by a friend. I like him very much as he answers all my questions and is very knowledgeable. He is also a member of the American Fertility Association. So far he has provided good care and I am satisfied.

This gynecologist works at a private hospital very close to my home, 6 blocks, and we are considering having the baby there since I could have him delivery my child. We have supplemental insurance and unless something does horribly wrong we will be covered. I still have to tour the place and ask all the right questions which we will do in the next two weeks.

My only complaint is the fact that my gyno seems obsessed with my weight. I met another pregnant lady at Ikea the other day, she was tiny, thin and they type that looked like she just has a basketball under her maternity dress. She told me her doctor wanted her to gain only 10 kilos, that’s 22 pounds. But she said it was impossible. I am 29 weeks along have gained 12 kilos so far and the gyno insisted that I see a dietician. I will make an appt. after the holidays are over but I think it is overkill.

Technically, the extra weight - baby, water, extra blood, extra breasts and everything adds up to 8-10 kg. Everything you gain above that is what you gain. Some extra weight is needed as backup when you're breast feeding, so it's perfectly normal to gain a little more.

I had gall stones and couldn't eat any fat for the entire pregnancy (I cried when there were chips commercials on TV!) and I gained about 5 kg up until the last weeks when I gained 3 more - 8 kg in total. Alexander was 6 days old when I put on my old jeans again and looked great (no tummy, extra breasts )
However, after two months of nursing I weighed 51 kilos, which means that I had lost everything AND an additional 5 kg. I was so thin... Then I had gall bladder surgery and started eating fat again and re-gained everything and then some

Anyway, my point is that the doctors are not wrong in telling you that 10-12 kilos is enough. I do think it's unnecessary to put blame on the mothers-to-be who are already worrying about everything and now have to worry about their weight too, but it's not wrong.

I knew I should have stayed out of this thread as this is a subject dear to my heart. And doctors incense me...

Gia-Gina: PLEASE don't worry! "normal" in the US is 25 - 35 pounds for normal weight women. Sure, the baby only wieghs 6 -8 pounds then there is some fluid but remember: Rigt now you are even carrying twice the volume of blood you normally do! You are growing a baby! Your baby is taking your vitamins (iron, calcium, etc. from you) so you need weight. Are healthy babies born to moms who gain 5 pounds? Yes. Are healthy babies born to moms who gain 40 pounds? YES. There is enough guilt around eating and being thin in society, please don't let it creep into your psyche during pregnancy. Is this a license to eat non-nourishing food all the time? NO, but I am sure you are eating healthy and your baby is fine.

It really irks me when some MALE doctor tells women to stop gaining weight during pregnancy. Be healthy. Everyone is different. Even during different pregnancies. I gained 30 with Bella and 20 with Ian. Both babies were healthy and so was I. When I only gained 20 my doctor was telling me to gain weight! (Usually not a problem with me, but I was busy with a toddler and just couldn't!)

Please, please Gia-Gina. Stay the course. You are well within normal. And you have the rest of your life to get back into your jeans. (I am pre-pregnancy weight again...then again my youngest is 5!) This is a baby!

Good luck!
[Note: mothers should not gain 100 pounds, don't get me wrong. That is not healthy either.]

The baby gets healthy no matter what (unless, of course, you're actually starving) because that's how nature works, it makes sure that the baby gets what it needs. The mother won't, though, if she doesn't eat enough. That's why I didn't gain more weight - I couldn't eat enough, so my baby took his energy from me. I didn't look healthy for the first months because I didn't have any reserves left.
If you gain TOO much it will take longer to lose it afterwards, but there are more important things to worry about aren't there? Relax, and enjoy. Don't worry.

Things that sucked about giving birth in Italy
1)16 gauge IV needles - in the USA they are only used in trauma patients, stupid and painful to put one in every laboring woman
2)no informed concent - my doctor felt she could do what ever she felt like(sweep my membranes, break my water) without asking my permission, highly unethical
3)no hospital gown - I would have preferred to use a gown provided by the hospital rather than soil my own clothes with various bodily fluids
4)no private rooms - laboring in a room with other people was distracting and made me self conscious and embarrassed
5)transferring to delivery room - having to change rooms while the baby is crowning is horrible and potentially harmful
6)waiting in hall - after the baby was born I was put in the hall for 3 hours while I waited for a room in the recovery ward
7)missing the baby - they took him away for a bath and he was gone for 6 hours, they were waiting for the doctor to examine him
8)no shower - I wasn't allowed to shower for 2 days (who knows why) and one shower was shared by 30 women, had to wait in line forever
9)getting birth certificate - wandered all through the hospital the day after giving birth to find the office and wait in line an hour
10)help breastfeeding - when Roan had difficulty latching on the nurses were rough and aggressive in their attempts to help
11)no privacy - on the recovery ward there were 4 women to a room and no curtains, the immodesty of the other women made me fairly uncomfortable

Most of these are petty concerns and unimportant in the long run but the one that really bothered me was #2, things could have turned out really badly for my baby and I if I had listened to my idiot Dr.

IMO all of those concerns are important. You have every right to be upset about the way things happened, and they shouldn't be happening that way in Italy, the US, or anywhere. Birth is a special time in YOUR life and your baby's life. I think if more women protested the conditions under which they labor and give birth, the medical establishment would have to change things. Having an uncomfortable, uncaring, crowded birthing place can and does cause countless serious birth complications and dangerous interventions. A mother who feels uncomfortable, self-conscious, and uncared-for will have a prolonged and more painful labor, possibly resulting in physical and psychological damage to both the mother and baby. If you're planning to give birth (whether you've done it before or it's your first baby), please think very seriously about what environment you want, and what type of care you want. Then interview providers and visit birthing places until you find one that can deliver what you want.

I had my first baby at home with a midwife a year and a half ago. It was a wonderful experience in every way. I think the most important thing I learned was that the experience of birthing a baby can be one of the most tranquil and beautiful moments of your life. If you don't take control of the experience and make sure that the only people with you at the birth are ones who share your philosophy and vision of what you want it to be, someone else will take control. You deserve a happy, peaceful birth, and so does your baby

Gina, they wanted to put me on a diet (female doctor) too but I refused. I knew that in my family, we gain a lot during pregnancy. I also knew that I wasn't eating lots of food (I seemed to only want artichokes!). I know that I am already overweight but the 22+K I gained with each pregnancy was lost within 5 weeks. It was all water. Now if I could only get the rest off so easily!

Don't let the doctors stress you out. We are all different, some are thin as can be and can't gain anything and some of us balloon out. The only important thing IMO is that each person needs to eat as healthily as possible. Lots of veggies, good grains, some meat and stay away from the junk. If a prenant mom is doing that then the weight gain shouldn't be a concern (again IMO)

Thanks for all the advice everyone. It does not help that I am taller than my MIL, both SIL's, my FIL and so I am seen as a giant of the family. I am 5'7" and 170 cm. My MIL calls me a bit of a monument. I know I am healthy and still get around great, still clean and etc....

Some new news is that I tested a a bit high 10 points higher than the upper range on my glucose test. The gyno told me I did not have to take the 3 hour glucose test and to just watch my diet but he says I am positive for gestational diabetes, I think my high blood pressure is a factor.

I read in the US that after the 1 hour test one should take the 3 hour test in which blood is taken at 30 mins, 1 hour, 2 hours and 3 hours. If two of the four values are abnormal then you have a positive result.

I think I might just end up buying a glucose monitor and checking myself. I have a lot of experience with diabetes since I used to take care of a child with Type 1 in Seattle. Does anyone else have any experience with this?

Hi Gia
I was diagnosed with gestational diabetes after taking the 3 hour glucose test. I was sent home with a glucose monitor and was told to monitor my blood sugar level 4 times a day - in the morning before breakfast, an hour after breakfast, an hour after lunch and an hour after dinner. I was also given a menu guide to help with meal preparations.I gained 14 kg during my pregnancy and I lost the 12 kg within the first three weeks after giving birth. Baby Alex was born at 3.62 kg. He is now 7 months old and weighs 10 kg -- he has been breastfeeding exclusively until a week ago. Twice a day he has pureed veggies and fruits but is still breastfeeding. Don't worry so much about the weight gain. As long as you're eating healthy, you'll be fine. Take care and best wishes.
ps: I tried to load a picture of him, but it didn't seem to work

Indah, I saw little Alex at the GTG and he was a cutie. I am afraid of a giant baby so I got a moniter myself and will make sure I am on track numberwise, also I will go to the dietician and make sure she knows the situation. Thanks for all the advice this is one of the reasons I love this Forum.

I had another question about epidurals. I know they are not included in the national health service but can you get one of you decide to pay for it?

I was told by my gyno that at private hospitals you can get one on demand since you pay for it but at the public hospitals they do not have anesthesiologists on staff all the time and so you might not be able to get one if you want one. Also if you are scheduled for one and someone comes in more urgent that needs pain relief or surgery you might not be able to get the epidural. Giving birth without the assurance of pain relief seems unfathomable to me. Any experiences? or should I just visit the hospitals and ask myself?

Gia, the best solution is, IMHO to shop around first at public hospitals and private hospitals that offer their services through SSN for the best solution available. The emergency situation can happen also in private clinics, that's plain bad luck, but in case you requite the assistance of an anesthesiologist a larger place should be able to ask an anesthesiologist from another "reparto" to check on you. Again, it dipends on policies adopted by the individual hospital. If you opt for a private clinic, beware that most of the prejudice against pain medicine (including during childbirth, comes from a catholic (dare I say integralist?) group called Comunione e Liberazione, and many private hospitals are strictly connected to the church and this group. For instance, San Raffaele is, and both my grandfather and his brother, both with (extremely painful) bone cancer, were essentially refused pain medicine. Only after my grandfather moved on to a different hospital (private and working with SSN, but not connected to the church) he was finally given a decent pain treatment that made his final months more bearable. (Notice please that his doctor at the new hospoital was also a catholic and workign with "Vidas", a catholic volunteering group that assist terminal patients, so not all of the cathlics or cathlic organizations support the theory of "Die (or give birth) in pain to be repaid in heaven" pushed by CL.)

I am due with my first child in less than a month, and went to visit the hospital today. I specifically asked about epidurals, and was told that they do not offer them. Earlier in the day, I had been at my gyno's and she told me the hospital did. So, I gently asked a few more questions, and the nurse admitted that they are available, but only given in very rare occasions when there is an extreme need. It is not normal, and they do not like to do it (and yes, I have to pay for it, and already have notified the hospital that I may want it).

The hospital I visited was a public hospital (and now I'm more nervous than ever about giving birth!). Thank goodness having babies is a "natural" process.

Gina - I would say dont worry to much about the gestational diabetes. I had originally thought that it ran in my family, and so asked my OB about it and he told me to just try to stay away from the high carb foods.
As far as epidurals, some hospitals have it and you may not have to pay for it. Some do not offer it period, and some others you have to have it programmed out before hand. If you do have to pay for it it is from around €800- 1000 or so I have read. You will have to go around and check at the various hospitals to see what they offer.

Alice, Thank you for your input. I asked my gyno about an epidural and he said I could have one no problem at the private clinic. I am not worried about that. I am however still looking into our private insurance and making sure we can afford it. So I am touring a few public hospitals also to see what they offer.

AJ, Santa Ana in Torino is a top hospital and like many other places they offer epidurals but you have to pay. I wanted to let you know that while doing my homework I discovered that if you might want to have an epidural, you have to have an exam on your eighth month to make sure you are a candidate. Have you had this done? You might want to ask if this exam is required at the hospital you will chose or have chosen so you can get the epi when you really want and need it.

I have to say I am really blown away by this whole additude towards epidurals and pain relief in general in Italy. I have heard though that the reason why epidurals are harder to get is because they are trying to cut down on costs in the healthcare system and things like epidurals are the first to go.
I had an emergency surgery in June and I was given an epidural. That went fine but as soon as it wore off I was in EXTREME pain and begging for pain relief for an entire week that I was in the hospital. Nothing that they gave me, gave me relief. I was wondering if I was just being a nut when they started giving me injections of valium because I was ready to hit someone!!
I know now that I wasn't nuts because after my second surgery in a different hospital I felt pain immediatley as soon as I woke up (I had a local done). One of the doctors that operated on me had me hooked up to an I.V. with pain medication before I even left the operating room. I was able to recover the next few days without pain and when they took me off of it I was o.k. It was a completley different and better experience than the first go around. I would say to you guys that are having babies to check and make sure with several different hospitals on what they do for pain relief. I was in public hospitals both times and had two completley different experiences.
As for epidurals during childbirth...I say give me the medication! My first son was born all natural and it hurt like a mother****er! My second was born with an epidural and it was actually a pleasant experience. I felt little pain but I still had the "urge to push". I was happier and more relaxed and it was easier for me to ease into the baby bonding experience immediatley after birth.

www.anythingbutdull.blogspot.com

Forgot to add that both my kids were born in the states..not here.

www.anythingbutdull.blogspot.com