You'll do great if you listen more to your body and less to doctors and nurses. Most of them think they have your saftey in mind but don't realize that you would be better off being left alone. If it hurts too bad to labor laying down, get up and move around. If it hurts to push lying on your back with your feet up, turn to your side (most doctors can live with this, I pushed in this position with both of my boys and had no pain, in fact it felt great).
One warning though - if you disagree with your Dr. too much they might refuse to care for you. It happened to me at 38 weeks but I don't regret it a bit, the midwives took care of me and I had an awesome birth MY way.

I am also in Campania.Those figures are the stats for the public hospitals only..which are already bad enough! I was told by my OBGYN in Salerno, that in the private clinics..the csect rate is 80%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Keep that in mind..you have about a 50-50 chance of having a natural..or so called natural birth in the public setting..but you are doomed in the private..as I was on the Almafi Coast!!
pamela in

quote:

Originally posted by Delina:
I found these additional figures on the ministero della salute site.

quote:

Nel triennio 1998-2000 si è, infatti, registrata una percentuale in lenta ma progressiva crescita, con valori annui pari rispettivamente a 31,4%, 32,9%, 33,2% di tutti i parti.
L’aumento è dovuto principalmente ad alcune Regioni ad altissima frequenza di taglio cesareo, tra le quali la Campania (dato 2000 pari al 53%), la Sicilia (42,5%), la Puglia (40,6%), la Basilicata (40,8%).

I'm in Campania! Oh well, at least I'm prepared.

Great to have this dicussion!!!
I will tell you my story that happened while living in Positano with my Positanese husband. (I am originally from Chicago). This happened 5 years ago in May of 2001. JUST TO LET YOU KNOW>>IT IS A LONG STORY!!)

Let me premise it by saying I am one of those very "natural" people and I did not even want any pain drugs! I went to a Dr from Sorrento who makes regular weekly visits to Positano...people told me he was"bravo"...(my first mistake was listening to these locals!)It was truely a horrific first birth experience for me!

Unlike most of these young Italian girls, I asked , demanded, talked , researched..etc. This doctor did not like me one bit from the begining since I did not see him as "God" as the others appeared to view him. I even faxed his office some studies showing why many ultra sounds are not necessary and may even be harmful..as it is still a relatively new technology...(that did not go over well!)BUt he insisted on like 6 of them!! Of course getting paid well for each!!
I had the intutitive feeling to switch drs..but my husband , working as hard as he does did not want to have to drive me out of positano(we did not even own a car at the time). And he seemed to sense my unease and so in the end..he tells me everything I want to hear.."dont worry..you wont be given any meds, yes your husband can be there with you..and your "doula" friend..no, you do not need to rush into to the clinic at the first contraction..etc etc.

My water broke at my "doula friends" apartment.I was perfectly calm and a bit giddy. I begged her not to mention it to my very nervous and many times ..downright crazy Italian husband, as I did not feel so much as a contraction yet. I had a slightly bad feeling about calling the OBGYN. My husband guessed though and immediately phoned the DR. I got on the phone telling him I am not ready..as I had no pain,etc..and I probably would need to come in the morning..(it is aprox 11pm). He then screams on the other end that I need to get in NOW or the baby can DIE..yes he did say DIE. What? I asked calmly...he proceeds to say that if the cord is hainging out the my vagina..the baby could die since my water has broken. Well...I said casually, I think I would know if the cord was hanging out , which it wasnt. Besides, the water did not break and gush out ..it is trickling which I happen to know is no emergency as the amniotic fluid regenerates. THis infuriated him..he speaks to my husband..off the the clinic we go!

Now..the mother in law, brother in laws.aunts...basically whole family is called. The mother in law..with sister and bro in law also arrive at the clinic and all are nervous!

At his office before he examines me he says..This is an urgent because since my water broke, I must have the baby in 24 hours or he has to do a csect..that it is the LAW. Law?? I ask..that is no LAW!! He sreams at me so hard spit comes flying out of his mouth and says..I don't care what you do in America, but we are in Italy and it is the law! (never checked on that but sure it is not a law..if anyone knows..???)
He prceeds to examine and says that we have an emergency because you have meconium in your fluid. (ok..I had read this is very common as well as calls for attention as baby can aspirate this but not an emergency and is never an immediate csect!! But also I had been looking at the water trickling out , and it had always been clear;odorless. ) Basically, he lies!! I told him I will not do this "surgery..I know what he is up to! I will put on the heart R monitor and see if my baby girl is in stress...if so, Of course will do the csect! But not until! He tells my husband we must rush to the PRIVATE clinic. It is about 12:30am. Even my doula friend had seen my water and said it was fine(of course this Dr tells her point blank that she is NOTHING..no dr, not a nurse..NOTHING and to stay out of it.

At this point I begin feeling helpless, a victim of unjust, threatened, afraid..in shock! I feel like running out of the office into the dark of night and just hiding..anywhere..to save myself..save my birth.! But I am being swept into the car on the way to what I now dub "The Cesarian Clinic" in Piano di Sorrento(Not one woman there in my 6 days had a natural birth...NOT ONE!)

Now it is late and this is a private clinic so all staff needs to be called in..nurses, anesthesiologists,etc. SO they are all there...waiting! The Dr(monster) puts the HR monitor on and guess what..perfect heart rate..I tell him so, as I was familiar with normal ranges..and it was so normal. He says "well, she may be ok NOW, but at anytime, she could go into distress and DIE..how would feel if you let your baby DIE!" almost a quote. Somehow, I remained calm. I was not at all in fear for my child. I somehow knew from a place deep inside that all was well! I was only afraid of this horrible Dr and horrible nightmare! I told him she was fine...I babbled on about a 2nd opinion since it was a surgery..and i attempted to call some Dr friends back in the states. I could not really get through to them. My doula friend was crying for me; helpless herself..telling me it will be alright.
(ok..maybe some of your are thinking at this point.what is the big deal..it is just a csect..some women even demand them!) I was different. I wanted my birth. I prepared for it..never once felt something like this could happen..I read about unnecessary csects but that was America..this is OLD WORLD Italy..how wrong I was! I did not do my research! Not about South Italy anyway!

Finally the dr comes in with paper work. He yells at me that he cannot wait anylonger and if plan to LET MY BABY DIE it is my own fault and I need to sign paper saying I refused his help! I said...ok..give me a pen! OOOHHHH was he mad...because his tactics still were not workking on me and it was getting late..the STAFF wanted to go home you see...not wait around for some natural birth to take place the next day..and for many LIRA less! I started to even sign! Then it happens...my poor nervous, passionate, scared out of his wits husband breaks down...I mean sobbing and the whole works! He gets down on his knees and begs me to do the csect..he is scared one of us will die! He will never ask me to do another thing the rest of our lives..etc etc..what can I do. I thought of running. (little did I know that my mother in law who is originally from Paris..hates the Dr and understands what is happening. They all kept her away from me though as she wanted to bring me to the public hosptial in Vice Equense. I would find this out much later on.)
I had the csect all the time in utter shock. The assiting nurse was from England which helped a bit.It seemed to take FOREVER. I hated not feeling my legs all those hrs afterward and shaking all night. Of course my baby girl was just fine all along. THe dr even tried to lie during the csect. He says the cord was extra long and was wrapped around her legs so just as well we did the csect as it would have been an emergency later! The English nurse who assisted tells my doula friend that he said this, but that she never saw the cord as long or wrapped around the legs. So my quess is he just wanted to put it in the report to protect himself from me. I think I had HIM scared!

I was depressed for weeks afterwards. I felt that my birth had been robbed. I felt my womanhood was taken from me as well. I felt like she was never born..when I woke up the next morning I still thought I was pregnant for those first few seconds. I clung to my baby and did not let anyone take her from me all night long. They tried drugging me to sleep but it did not work for hours!

The worst was having to see him for days later. He told me to get up and start walking because with his csect "technique" I could go swiming in a week. I said..oh really, well then let me slash you abdomen with a knife, move your organs around and sew you back up with your technique and see how you feel! He said I think you hate me dont you ...I told him I most certainly do...and I did!
I had bad thoughts of having a hit put on him..really no joke...i figure South Itlay..mafia...it must be easy here. My husband just says..si mi amore..non ce problema! I did not want him hurting other women.
The problem is..I dont think he does here on the Almafi coast. It is just normal to most women that they will have a csect..just like all their friends. There is such a huge lack of education!!!

I would advise anyone in south Italy to find a midwife as they do exist here and can deliver babies here. If you cannot...go home! I had a wonderful, vbac,all natural- water birth in chicago 3 years later with a terrific doula and midwife at a hospital birthing room. This healed this horrid experience.
Most drs and midwifes I told this to, said it was the worst birth story they had ever heard of!
USE YOUR INTUITION>>IT is so present when you are pregnant!!!
Regards,
pamela

Wow, what a story! Food for thought.
I had heard that you couldn't have a natural birth after a c-section - or maybe some neapolitan doctor said that. hahah.
Did you read how Sydney (IIRC) found an hospital which promoted natural birth in Naples. - Quite a jewel, I know.
Anyway, I think I've read enough to quite put me off giving birth here - it seems to only go as planned if you agree to a c-section from the word go.
That said, for me (should I find myself in the situation), I can't really see how I'd have an alternative because I work here and it's not good to fly right before or after is it. Plus OH must be present too of course. I don't think I could risk him missing the birth of his child.

I think that many here thought that you could not have a natural birth after a c-section, but I just read an article in an italian baby magazine about how it is possible and they are starting to do it more often. I think that the magazine was Insieme, but not positive.

Two things:

My MIL had a c-section with my husband then she had two natural births after that and this was over 30 years ago, so it can be done.

After a visit to the dietican today I am officially mad. Everyone keeps telling me not to worry about my weight ( have gained 26 pounds so far and am at 32 weeks) but the doctoressa placed her hand on my wrist bones, told me I had a delicate frame and my ideal weight was 58 to 60 kilos. I weighed that much when I was 16, without breasts, hips and a butt.

Anyways long story short, I am not forbidden to have oil, milk, yogurt, cheese and nuts. I am mostly upset about the dairy I will be missing, she prefers I take a pill.

The worst thing of all is that she wants me to come back in a month and at that time I should have LOST 5 kilos. I think she is a quack but the DH says that since she was recommended by the gyno that I love, I should listen to her. Is he crazy???

In one word: YES.

That is just CRAZY! I haven't said much on this thread because I had my last baby 9 years ago, but I have to speak out on this. I gained 55lbs with my second pregnancy and 70lbs with my first. Neither time did I have gestational diabetes. My babies were large, but it runs in my family. I nursed both of them and lost the weight within 2 months, eating all I wanted the whole time. My first midwife tried to get me to diet and all it did was make me crazy to eat all the forbidden stuff. Eat healthy and nurse afterwards and you'll be fine.

quote:

Originally posted by Gia-Gina in Italy:
Two things:

My MIL had a c-section with my husband then she had two natural births after that and this was over 30 years ago, so it can be done.

After a visit to the dietican today I am officially mad. Everyone keeps telling me not to worry about my weight ( have gained 26 pounds so far and am at 32 weeks) but the doctoressa placed her hand on my wrist bones, told me I had a delicate frame and my ideal weight was 58 to 60 kilos. I weighed that much when I was 16, without breasts, hips and a butt.

Anyways long story short, I am not forbidden to have oil, milk, yogurt, cheese and nuts. I am mostly upset about the dairy I will be missing, she prefers I take a pill.

The worst thing of all is that she wants me to come back in a month and at that time I should have LOST 5 kilos. I think she is a quack but the DH says that since she was recommended by the gyno that I love, I should listen to her. Is he crazy???

NO NO NO! Gia please don't listen to her! You musn't loose weight and you should be eating diary. You need all the calcium you can get and calcium tablets dont work because your body can't assorb them properly. I had all the same problems with my doctor, same diet issues and tut tutting at my weight gain. I know I told you this but I went from 60 to 90 kilos and everything was fine. I'm now 59 and it wasn't very hard to get down to that.
Go to babycenter.com and use the info you get there, I did everything they advised because I just didn't trust my doctor.

What hurts me the most is being told I am obese, not fat but more than fat since she thinks my ideal weight is 58-60 kilos and even before I got pregnant I was no where near that but still had a good figure and was very healthy. I ran, swam, walked and hiked. I was happy with the way that I looked. She made me feel like I had to prove I was not overweight.

I have another appt. with my gyno tomorrow and I will tell him that although I love him as a doctor. I cannot follow the diet that the dietican gave me b/c I do not think it is sound. My goal is to control my gestational diebetes, not lose weight during my pregnancy. Controlling the weight gain and eating sensible is a given, I am doing that.

Thanks for all the support everyone, I may go to another dietician. I know this is a place I can turn to for solid advice and comfort.

Good for you

By the way I'm going to send you an email (if I can find your address) with a photo of me at 8 months so you can can see how huge I was. Strictly for your eyes only, this photo makes me cry

Gia-Gina, I've never had a baby, so I suggest listening to the good advice of the other mums, however, I felt compelled to write after reading what you went through.

Is the dietician even considering that you're 32 weeks pregnant?! It sounds like she's decided to put you on a diet without even thinking about what's going on with you. I've never heard a pregnant woman being told to loose weight, only to watch what they're eating. It seems they have an obsession about weight gain during pregnancy here. She has no right to make you feel down about yourself. I've seen your blog photo and you're looking great!

IIRC Cristina had some words of wisdom about weight gain in preganancy - maybe earlier on this thread.

Yael, post the picture here - go on!

quote:

Originally posted by Gia-Gina in Italy:
What hurts me the most is being told I am obese, not fat but more than fat since she thinks my ideal weight is 58-60 kilos and even before I got pregnant I was no where near that but still had a good figure and was very healthy.......

How incredibly stupid is this woman who reckons she is a dietician. Doesn't she consider that you are carrying the equivalent of a 'full rucksack' - not on your back - but inside you? If you follow this 'diet' who is going to be the first to lose weight - you or the baby?

Listen to the others here....they KNOW. My experience with birth was almost too long ago to remember, but with 'diets'?
Well, say no more...

quote:

Originally posted by Yael:
Good for you

By the way I'm going to send you an email (if I can find your address) with a photo of me at 8 months so you can can see how huge I was. Strictly for your eyes only, this photo makes me cry

'Spoil Sport'!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Delina:
Gia-Gina, I've never had a baby, so I suggest listening to the good advice of the other mums, however, I felt compelled to write after reading what you went through.

Is the dietician even considering that you're 32 weeks pregnant?! It sounds like she's decided to put you on a diet without even thinking about what's going on with you. I've never heard a pregnant woman being told to loose weight, only to watch what they're eating. It seems they have an obsession about weight gain during pregnancy here. She has no right to make you feel down about yourself. I've seen your blog photo and you're looking great!

IIRC Cristina had some words of wisdom about weight gain in preganancy - maybe earlier on this thread.

Yael, post the picture here - go on!

Also have no expertise but I just wanted to say that I think that women in general are given a very hard time about their weight in general and it shocks me that these doctors and dieticians could give you a hard time when you are pregnant as well! Has it occurred to them that you are growing another human being inside you? I hate to think of all these other mums being told not to eat dairy products while pregnant and to lose weight!

Another issue which I have come up against, although not pregnant is that as a foreigner I have a very different body type from most Italian women. I'm 5'11", weigh around 70 kilos and have big boobs. I often feel funny in shops asking if they have larger size clothes or bras in shops (they usually don't have anything which would fit me!). There is this general feeling that you should fit into a certain body type norm here sometimes which us foreigners often just don't fit into. I feel that there is a lot of social conformity here regarding not being "overweight" and this is not healthy.

So remember that you are not Italian and you just have a different body type. Don't listen to that dietitian!

Ramona,

I can imagine how you feel. I am only 5'7" and am taller than my MIL, both SIL's, my gyno, the dietician, my vet, all 4 of my expat friends here. I am only 4 cm shorter than my husband. I feel a lot better today and from knowing all types of women, I know I have lots of muscles and very dense bone structure today it's raining in Torino but I feel the sun shining on me. Thanks to all the supportive comments.

That's the spirit!



Next time you go (if you go back, don't think you really need to return) you should refuse to get on the scales. Bet that would wind her up something chronic!

quote:

Originally posted by Ramona:
There is this general feeling that you should fit into a certain body type norm here sometimes which us foreigners often just don't fit into. I feel that there is a lot of social conformity here regarding not being "overweight" and this is not healthy.

I think the fact that in most shops bras come in size 2,3 or 4 says it all. In the UK there are normally 15 different sizes but here if you don't fit into one of the three 'normal' sizes better go to the specialist 'you're a freak' bra shop.
When I was 6 months I was already a size 8, even prenatale didn't have a bra to fit me

quote:

I think the fact that in most shops bras come in size 2,3 or 4 says it all. In the UK there are normally 15 different sizes but here if you don't fit into one of the three 'normal' sizes better go to the specialist 'you're a freak' bra shop.

Hands up people who don't buy their bras in Italy. me me me

quote:

Originally posted by Yael:

quote:

Originally posted by Ramona:
There is this general feeling that you should fit into a certain body type norm here sometimes which us foreigners often just don't fit into. I feel that there is a lot of social conformity here regarding not being "overweight" and this is not healthy.

I think the fact that in most shops bras come in size 2,3 or 4 says it all. In the UK there are normally 15 different sizes but here if you don't fit into one of the three 'normal' sizes better go to the specialist 'you're a freak' bra shop.
When I was 6 months I was already a size 8, even prenatale didn't have a bra to fit me

Well for me even though I'm not pregnant I wear a 34DD. Back in the US or Australia this size is available at most department stores etc. Here I made the mistake of walzing into Rinascente to ask what the equivalent Italian size would be and they looked at my chest like I was an absolute freak and made me feel like there is something wrong with me.

I'm 34 and can deal with this but it must be awful for teenage girls here who don't fit into the "normal sizes".

Cross posted with Delina - yep I think there is already a thread on bra shopping in Italy for those who don't have tiny boobs.