Dd is sitting quietly so I have a few minutes to post something. (If I don't come back to check for responses for a day or two please don't be angry- dd is a little "high needs.")

I'm wondering how other parents who chose not to follow the ped's advice about introducing solids to infants have dealt with surprised and/or shocked in-laws, friends, neighbors, etc.

My daughter's ped gave me a detailed plan for weaning beginning at five months. I think it's pretty much the same everywhere- the rice cereal in the broth, adding the liofilizzati, then homogenized meat. No fruit until the second month of solids, and veg only in the broth.

I didn't want to start solids until six months so I put it off for as long as I could. (Fortunately (?) I had mastitis for a couple of weeks so I had a good reason to insist on no reduced nursing.) Then to appease dh, who was obviously getting questions from his family, I gave dd some rice cereal at 5 1/2 mos. Barely having enough time to cook for myself and dh, I really could not entertain the idea of cooking a broth everyday, so I mixed the cereal with some pumped breastmilk. (Breastmilk is so much more nutritious than a broth anyway.) Well, that caused quite a reaction! I don't know why because on the rice cereal box one of the suggestions is mixing it with milk. Lately, dd eats some fruit puree once a day. I stopped the rice cereal after a couple of weeks, because I just don't think it's necessary. I explained to dh that the rice cereal is just to get babies used to spoons, and he was satisfied, but I don't think MIL or SIL were convinced. I mentioned that I was about to start giving her some veg, and BIL's wife advised me that veg is only given to babies in the broth or as a passata. MIL keeps asking when dd is going to eat meat. I know that in a couple of weeks they're going to start asking about pastine, and I want to wait a while before introducing glutein.

I'm definitely committed to doing things how I think best. But I get the impression that dh's family is concerned a little insulted that I'm doing things differently from them. How dare I not do it the way it's done here? How dare I not follow a doctor's advice to the letter? (I think that this must be a problem fairly common to parenting, and not just in culturally mixed families, which is why I'm posting this here instead of in Culture Shock.) Advice? Experiences?

I had pretty much the same responses from friends, doctors and in laws. I pretty much just said, my child, my rules and after a few conversations explaining my beliefs, they finally all gave up.

Purreed veggies is great. Zucchini is an easy one to start with. You can add a cereal, olive oil and parm to it.

Part of parenting unfortunately is dealing with opinions of others. They do stop though, it just takes a while.

Be strong, we are here for you!

I completely understand. I am going through the same thing with my inlaws. I also was given a menu plan from our pediatrician here that I have not (and will not) follow.

I have received many suggestions (demands really) from my MIL that I needed to start off with fruit that I should puree myself and give him spoons of parmesan and olive oil because we are in Italy and that's what babies eat in Italy. That's all good and fine, but I'm not Italian. If my husband and I lived in China, I KNOW that my MIL would not say, "You are in China, so you should follow the diet that the Chinese babies eat." She would still want us to feed our baby the Italian way. It is obvious that my MIL feels our baby should eat exactly what SHE wants our baby to eat. I know it infuriates her that I don't follow her demands when it comes to feeding our son. But it's our son, not hers. And thank goodness my husband trusts my judgements and is always with me on these matters.

I'm American and follow the suggestions in the "What to Expect the First Year" book. I started rice cereal (Gerber brand that my mother sent me from the States) at four months. (I used formula to mix it with...would have used breast milk if I was still nursing.) Tried the brands here from Italy, but baby didn't like them. At 6 months, I began other Gerber cereals (Mixed Grain and Oatmeal), as well as vegetables. In the book, it says to start with vegetables rather than fruits because they are more nutritious and also to make sure that baby doesn't develop a sweet tooth. In other words, get baby to like cereals and veggies first, then let him eat the yummy sweet fruits. Most babies like fruits, so I wasn't concerned about him not liking those. But I did want to make sure that he developed a liking to veggies. I started with pureed carrots (Mellin brand I think), then I moved to the greens (spinach, legumes, and mixed veggies). My book says to wait 3 days before introducing a new food to make sure there is no allergy. So he ate 3 days of carrots, then I would start a new veggie for another 3 days and so on. After I felt he was good with veggies, I started fruits. I like the Nestle Mio and Hipp fruits because they don't add sugar. (Nestle Mio and Hipp don't add sugar or salt to their baby foods.) Started with apple, then pear, then banana and so on. Only thing I didn't give was any mixed fruit with orange in it. In the States, we hold off on citrus for the first year for allergy reasons. Here they don't give babies pureed strawberries early on, but in the States we do. I also avoid any fruits with honey mixed in...in the States honey is a no no until after the baby is a year old because it poses a health risk. Honey could contain the spores of Clostridium Botulinum, which is harmless to adults but can cause Botulism in babies. I remember when our son was about 5 months, my MIL said we should give him Camomile tea with honey.

At around 8 months, I started meat. I bought the Pappa pronta turkey or chicken. He eats it for lunch sometimes. But mostly veggies and fruits. I also got the Nestle Mio Merenda Latte and Banana, and Latte and apricot. It's basically yogurt. Started that at 10 months, and baby loves it.

One thing I think is very different here is that in the States, the baby food is very pure (ingredients for carrots are: carrots, water...ingredients for peas are: peas, water, etc.). Here there seems to be a lot of other things in the food and a lot of times salt, which, according to my book, should be avoided. Also, in the States, the baby foods are ready to serve, whereas here the directions on the container always say to mix with "pappa" rather than just eat straight carrots or straight peas. In fact, my SIL and MIL are always shocked that I feed our son straight veggies without adding "pappa" to it. The baby food, "pappa pronta", is the only kind that is to be eaten as is.

Anyway, I am sure every country feeds their babies differently. And as long as the doctor says they are healthy and growing, then I wouldn't worry about what others say about how you are caring for and feeding your baby. My inlaws don't like the "American" way I am feeding our son, and I'm not a huge fan of the Italian way to be honest. Also the Italian way seems like so much unnecessary work, making brodos and stuff. If the stuff they sell in the Italian supermarkets is not good, then I can understand making your own food and brodos. But in the States, baby food is actually one of the few prepared foods that is really healthy and doesn't have a lot of stuff added to it. So why spend so much time (which is hard to find after the birth of a baby) on preparing all these things when you can buy pure healthy baby foods ready to serve? Again, maybe the baby food here in Italy isn't as good quality...I don't know. I only know that they have a lot more ingredients (including salt) listed on the containers than on the Gerber products found in the States.

Every country does things differently, and I can respect that. But inlaws (particularly my MIL!) need to respect that mothers may want to feed their babies according to their homeland culture rather than the culture of the country they are currently living in.

Where are you from? I'd love to hear how baby diets are from your country.

On more thing...I've talked to several doctors in the States (my dad is a doctor and my best friend's dad is a pediatrician) and they do say that for the first year, the major part of a baby's diet should be breast milk/formula. You are right in the sense that the baby food is to get them used to eating from a spoon. Our baby is now almost 11 months, so he drinks three 210 ml. bottles of formula as well as fruits, cereals, veggies, meats, yogurts, and sometimes rice cakes, Saltine crackers (without the salt), Cheerios (without honey) or small banana chunks as a snack. I am mainly concerned that he gets his 3 bottles of formula a day because that is where he gets the most of his nutrients.

Anyway, our baby really likes all the food (actually he's surprisingly not a big fan of zucchini, but loves spinach!)...this is the main reason why I feed him so much of it. I'm not that concerned about his nutrition because, again, I know that he is getting it from the formula. In a month or so, we are going to start him on regular milk...hope he likes it because he really loves his formula. Then I will have to make sure that he gets his other nutrients from foods.

I am in the same boat! Though with less interference (thank God) from the in-laws and other relatives. I've found in the past a simple, 'I'm not Italian and that's why I'm not doing it the Italian way...' to shut people up pretty fast. Though recently I've put my baby on a sleep routine (he's been a HORRIBLE sleeper up to now) whereby he goes to bed at 8 p.m. (with the whole bath, book, boob/bottle thing) and I can't tell you how much crap I've gotten from everyone around me. You'd have thought I wanted to put him to bed for the night at 3 in the afternoon. I know Italian kids run around until all hours and I never thought I'd be one of those parents who had a strict routine but my baby is not even six months old, and I think 8 p.m. is a reasonable time for him to go to bed, especially because he is finally beginning to sleep better (though not through the night...).

In any case, weaning. I'm trying to do an Italian-American mix. I have the Chicco baby food maker and I do make a point of on a Sunday or sometime when someone else keeps the baby to make up huge batches of baby food and freeze it. As someone else mentioned here, I can't find any brands that don't add salt or sugar, and I wanted to make my own food. I do make the broth and it's really easy and you just freeze big batches of it. I'm beginning weaning in earnest this week as, unfortunately, I have to stop breastfeeding and I prefer to introduce solids at this point over increased doses of formula. My baby is big and hungry and has already taken to everything I've given him to taste. One thing I'm confused about is the amount of milk he'll need per day. A sample menu I was given for six months here goes something like:

Breakfast - 210 ml milk
Lunch - Rice cereal with broth, meat, parmesan and oil OR rice cereal with a cheese, such as ricotta or crescenza and oil
Snack - Yogurt or fruit
Dinner - Rice cereal or semolina with broth, a vegetable (carrots, zucchini, pumpkin), parmesan and oil
Before bed - 210 ml milk

That seems like very little milk to me, especially for such a young baby. I don't mind following a more 'Italian' diet as my baby has liked all of the above so far. As long as he's getting all of his nutritional needs covered, I'm happy. I have been introducing vegetables and fruits one by one though, more like we do in the U.S. My advice is to incorporate what you like from each style of weaning. That's what I'm trying to do. The one thing that does annoy me is that they really push the meat here (I'm vegetarian but will not raise my baby vegetarian, though I don't feel he needs it right away) while what I've read in American publications makes it seem as if it is not all that necessary at such a young age.

What you do with your child is your business and others need to butt out. When people here get 'insulted' because I do things differently, (hello, I AM different) I think it shows a real lack of sensitivity. And ignorance. Sorry not to be harsh but I just spent the whole last weekend explaining why we wouldn't be at this family event or another because the baby doesn't go out now at night. Everyone loves to play with the baby and get up in his face and scream 'ciao bello!' but then I'm the one who has to pay the price later at home with an overtired, overstimulated baby who stays up all night screaming.

Not sure if I answered any of your questions but I do understand!
Michelle

I wanted to mention one other thing. From what I've read in the U.S. (and other Anglo country) literature, it seems as if months six and seven are a time for little 'tastes' of various fruits and vegetables (perhaps mixed with rice or oat cereal) and then solids begin in earnest around month eight when milk takes on a secondary role. Here it seems as if the baby goes off milk feedings cold turkey almost at month six - or even earlier as I know some people here wean at month four - and begins 'pappe' at lunch and dinner with a snack thrown in there somewhere. I find this really drastic so I'm just trying to incorporate the two styles somehow.
Michelle

We did a little bit of a mix on introducing solids to our son. We used the broth (it was MUCH cheaper than formula) and just made one big pot of it and froze it in ice cube trays so that we had broth (and puree) for a month at a time. Just stick it in the microwave for a minute and it is ready. If the food was written on our 'list' given to us by the ped, and if we didnt have any objections to it, we gave it to him. We also would give him other stuff that 'american' babies were eating as well.
The meat did not go over to well with him, and so we held off for a while, and he still does not like it too much (my MIL is really worried about this) but I really dont care at all. My MIL is also concerned that we dont cook a brand new meal, with lots of different stuff for every lunch and dinner (still gets everything he needs tho) and she tries to tell me what to feed him everyday almost... hopefully she is starting to give up now .

quote:

My MIL is also concerned that we dont cook a brand new meal, with lots of different stuff for every lunch and dinner (still gets everything he needs tho) and she tries to tell me what to feed him everyday almost... hopefully she is starting to give up now .

If it makes you feel any better my MIL still tries to tell me what to feed her SON

Anyway, my eldest was born in Asia, I know the Italian way, but most of my knowledge about baby nutricion came from the books I bought during my US stay (and encounters with US moms). My very intelligent paediatrician offered some advice and when asked about "conflicting" feeding habits he just replied: "Do what feels right for you: babies are fed differently around the world and grow up anyway." So that was my standard answer.
By the way, my daughter was a very fussy eater, she hated rice cereal, so I ground Cheerios and mixed them with mashed zucchini(or carrots, or whatever I was cooking and freezing until she became easier to deal with).

Enjoy your babies!

Raffaella

Thanks everyone for the responses!

I had actually considered making large amounts of broth and freezing it in small portions, but even that would have been impossible. Dd will only sit quietly for about one hour a day, and I use that time to do laundry, wash dishes and if I'm lucky, eat. I cook when dh gets home in the evening, and then I have at most a half hour. I also have some very bad eczema that makes using my hands painful, so I try to cut down on what I do around the house.

Cristina, thanks for the zucchini suggestion. I hadn't thought of zucchini even though it's one of my favorite vegetables.

Amy, I had heard the same thing about introducing veg first, but then breastmilk is sweeter than sweet so I figured that dd would have already developed a sweet tooth if it were to happen at all. I'm also surprised by the additives in much of the baby food here, but I thought maybe it was the same in the U.S. From what you say, though, it's not. A scary thing about honey: whenever people ask me why my daughter doesn't have a pacifier (I swear I get asked that at least once every time we go out) and I tell them that she didn't want one, they tell me that I needed to put honey on it. Yikes!

Michelle, don't even get me started on bedtime! My baby has an early bedtime too, though not as early as yours, and it gets lots of comments. I think the point you made about the differences in introducing solids here and in the U.S. is an important one- here they seem to be most interested in weaning the child off milk. I remember how shocked I was by the plan the ped gave me because of how fast it was. That menu is interesting- no night feedings. I guess babies eating lots of solids don't wake up hungry at night? That explains why my husband's colleagues were all surprised to hear that the baby still wakes up in the early morning hours to nurse.

Di, fortunately MIL doesn't seem to care about whether a fresh meal gets cooked every day. She's just doesn't understand why the baby isn't eating meat yet. I'm planning on starting her on meat in a month or so. MIL is going to be staying with us for a couple of weeks before then so I wonder what kind of discussions we'll have. She tends to be fairly open-minded and I'm hoping that if I'm straightforward and respectful she won't be too upset.

Raffaela, sounds like you've found a great pediatrician.

BTWa thing I don't like is that many children, even though they were started early on solids, continue to eat baby food fairly late. BIL's wife was complaining about having to cook three different dinners, one for her and BIL, another for her four year old, and a third for her 20 month old. Shouldn't both of her kids be able to eat at least some of what their parents eat? Instead, she needs to make the pappa for the baby and special foods for the older child because he still hasn't learned to eat grown-up food. That's an error I don't care to make.

Anyway, thanks everyone for your input.

Karen

That does seem odd. My son is 17 months and already eats almost everything that we eat. We have to cut it all up in really small pieces (and so many times just make him something else if it is too difficult to cut small enough for him), but that is because he is too lazy to chew his food. He is getting better with it, but still likes to just try to swallow things whole, without chewing.
My ped. told me that he should be able to eat just about everything right now, and even when he was younger she was glad that we 'made some changes' to the list that she gave us for starting his solids.

quote:

Originally posted by Professoressa:
Michelle, don't even get me started on bedtime! My baby has an early bedtime too, though not as early as yours, and it gets lots of comments. I think the point you made about the differences in introducing solids here and in the U.S. is an important one- here they seem to be most interested in weaning the child off milk. I remember how shocked I was by the plan the ped gave me because of how fast it was. That menu is interesting- no night feedings. I guess babies eating lots of solids don't wake up hungry at night? That explains why my husband's colleagues were all surprised to hear that the baby still wakes up in the early morning hours to nurse.

I didn't decide his bedtime. He did. I'm not doing Babywise or anything. It actually would be better for me if he went to bed later (and slept later in the mornings...) but he gets incredibly fussy around 7:30 p.m., rubs his eyes in an exaggerated manner, etc. I finally realized that the reason I had a screaming baby on my hand most nights was because he was overtired and we had missed his 'window' of sleepiness and then he wouldn't settle. I spent more than four months sleep deprived and frazzled before I figured out what it was he was screaming about. He's still not a fantastic sleeper and still wakes several times a night BUT he is much less agitated in the day and it doesn't take hours and hours of pacing the house with him to get him to go to bed. That is - if you have him bathed, in his pajamas and having his last feeding at 8 p.m. If you miss that window, there will be hell to pay, usually in the form of a baby who stays up all night screaming.
People here keep telling me 'the baby will adapt to your lifestyle' but now I think that's total BS. We tried carting him around 'come un pacco postale' - out at the pizzeria on Friday nights, eating at nonna's a couple of nights a week. And I constantly had an overtired and overstimulated baby on my hands. So, here we are...
Michelle

quote:

Originally posted by mschoen:
People here keep telling me 'the baby will adapt to your lifestyle' but now I think that's total BS. We tried carting him around 'come un pacco postale' - out at the pizzeria on Friday nights, eating at nonna's a couple of nights a week. And I constantly had an overtired and overstimulated baby on my hands. So, here we are...
Michelle

I agree 100%. We've tried to get her to go to bed later, but she just cant make it past 9PM. She's on a feeding schedule too, but it's really HER schedule. I just followed her cues. As for naps, she decides when to take them. If I try to get her to sleep, she fights it. She's very willful, that's just her personality. If we didn't do what she needs, she (and we) would be miserable.

We were lucky...our baby actually did adapt to our lifestyle(sleep-wise). Since the 2nd month, our little pumpkin goes to sleep about 10:30 p.m. and wakes up around 9:30 a.m. However he does not take marathon naps during the day. Only about 40 minutes in the morning and 40 minutes in the afternoon. I have a friend whose baby was also a dream when it came to sleeping at night the entire first year, but when the baby turned a year old, she began waking up in the night. ugh. I hope that doesn't happen with our little angel!

Rafaella, my MIL also tries to tell me what to feed her son. She basically takes charge of what he eats and what he wears. She drops bags of tupperware containers full of food that she thinks my husband should be eating. In those bags are also clothes that she has bought for him. When she drops off this stuff (which is usually when he is still at work), she then proceeds to go into our bedroom and rifle through my husbands drawers to remove any clothes that she thinks he should not be wearing anymore and replaces them with the new clothes. I don't let this bother me too much, because it's her business between she and her son. It's another story when she orders me around though...which she does constantly (mostly about how to care for our son). After begging my husband to escape her, we finally left Tuscany and moved here to Torino. Things are better now that she can't just drop by to harass me and undermine me in my own home any time she wants. At least now, I have notice when I have to deal with her. Seriously, what is up with Italian MILs and not being able to determine what is their business and what is not. (I say Italian MILs because none of my friends back in the States have problems with their MIL to the degree that wives in Italy do. And I've also seen so many articles lately on the internet about MILs' interferring behavior being the cause of higher divorce rates in Italy.) Anyway, I find my MIL EXTREMELY intrusive, offensive, and disrespectful. If only you knew the things she has done to me in the past...I think you would be quite shocked! I was completely shocked that a MIL could behave like this (and think it is acceptable) and so was my family back in the States when I told them about her behavior.

OK I'll stop now before I get worked up into a tizzy over this!

quote:

Originally posted by Amy Cortese:
We were lucky...our baby actually did adapt to our lifestyle(sleep-wise). Since the 2nd month, our little pumpkin goes to sleep about 10:30 p.m. and wakes up around 9:30 a.m. However he does not take marathon naps during the day. Only about 40 minutes in the morning and 40 minutes in the afternoon.

Until about three weeks ago (when I began the routine) my baby didn't sleep in the day. At all. Maybe five minutes here and five minutes there. Now I'm lucky if he goes down for an hour in the afternoon. At night he sleeps from around 8:30 p.m. to 6:30 a.m. waking up a couple of times to eat. Of course, I'd love it if he slept 10:30 p.m. to 9:30 a.m. That'd be ideal for me. Especially the sleeping through the night part. But before I had the routine every night was a crapshoot. He pretty much was waking up every two hours until about 4.5 months old. The fact that he only wakes up once or twice a night now has us overjoyed, and I refuse to go back to the way things were just to please relatives who want to see him out in the evening. Just today my MIL said to him, 'Monello, you can't fall asleep at 8 p.m. Don't you know children can't go to sleep until after Carosello, which goes off at 9.' I think Carosello went off a while ago, no? But the idea was that 9 is the absolute minimum he'd be able to go to bed.
Michelle

I do think things must be different in different regions. Also I've read english, american and canadian books and they always conflict on when to give which solids. My ped. here in Siena when my baby was 4 months told me to give apple or pear when I was ready. I didn't think that was bad advice. I haven't heard anything about this brodo or complicated meal plans from my dr. or italian friends. Most parents (italian) I know make most of their own babyfood. In france as well they do. Jars are considered only for convenience when out or travelling. I think this is a much better approach than in america where most babies are raised exclusively on jars.
As for sleeping that's another story. Babies need sleep! I don't care what italians do. My DD was going to bed late and I actually preferred her to go to bed a little earlier and get up earlier (to see daddy before work). She goes to sleep about 8. My two cents...

The World Health Organicsation recoomends the commencement of weaning not before 6 months.
The advice I had here from the paed was so antiquated I ignored it and went with what I knew was based on sound knowledge from my healthvisiting days in the UK.
It was a ridiculous sheet of paper and it culminatd in offering Pomodoro at 12 mnths, prosciutto cotto at 7 months, 20grams of this 20grams of that, absolutely pathetic with no flexibility for individual children.
Take lead from your little one, if you listened to half the nonsense you'd be sticking a dummy covered in sugar everytime baby winged.

I saw the in-laws again over the weekend. Fortunately they weren't very inquisitive, so the subject didn't come up very often. I did say something that shocked them, though. Dh wanted to give the baby a piece of a peach from a crostata and I said no because it would have other ingredients on it, but I told him if he really wanted to give her something he could mash up a tiny bit of melon. There was a chorus of gasps and they all reprimanded me because melon is "pesantuccio." Isn't melon mostly water? I know it's extremely sweet, but I thought a pea-sized amount of melon wouldn't do any harm. It turned out that there wasn't any melon left, so I just let it go. So melon is too hard for babies to digest but meat isn't?

At the same lunch, all the other children drank Coke, including a 20 month old. When dh jokingly held a cup with a little bit coke in it to the baby's mouth and I told him not to joke about that, they all told me to calm down because a little bit of coke "non fa niente!" But melon is out of the question?! Is there something I'm missing here?

Farfalle, at my daughter's last visit to the ped, the ped told me I could start her on tomatoes now- 6 months! Oh, and beans too!

That's funny! That reminds me once I was at a dinner w/ a 9 month baby they were feeding cheese and rice. I asked if he could eat some of the fruit (melon), and the mom was like 'oh no, definitely not!'. Cheese isn't harder on the tummy?
Anyway I just started solids last week-first bananas mixed w/ breast milk and then sweet potatoes. I'm debated whether I should try to explain sweet potatoes to the ped. at our appt. tomorrow.

I just gave our son (11 months today!) melon for the first time last week. He liked it! I would have given it to him sooner, but I never seem to find good melons until the summertime. Strange, because I can buy melons (cantaloupe) any time of the year in the States. Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with melon for babies. I cut it up into little chunks and squished them with my finget a bit before feeding them to the baby.

Elisamaria, where are you finding sweet potatoes here in Italy?? I only saw them once at the Ipercoop here in Torino around Christmas time. I think they called them "Patate Americano"

Does anyone see anything wrong with giving our 11 month old little pieces of prosciutto cotto from the supermarket deli (not cotto in packages)?

My sister used to always feed her children shaved turkey breast from the deli, but I don't see much turkey breast here. So I thought maybe some prosciutto cotto would be good, but maybe a bit salty? Also my baby book says not to feed deli meats unless heated until steamed to prevent listeria. But I'm not convinced that it's such a big risk. I'm just trying to find more finger foods (regular foods) for our baby to eat.

Also what about the frozen fish fingers, if I take away the breading part? Sorry, I'm so used to all the baby food products in the U.S. for all stages (with the stage clearly la