Hi Amy,
Yes, I've seen sweet potatoes (patate americane) a couple times at the coop, but here in Siena there's a frutta/verdura place in town that always have them, so I keep them on hand. I just made sweet potato bread for an italian friend and she loved it.
Anyway about solids, my baby normally sleeps thru the night just fine ( a couple feedings tho), but since we started solids she hasn't been sleeping well. She's not constipated. Has anyone else seen this? I thought it might just be coincidence w/ teething issues, I don't know.

quote:

Originally posted by Amy Cortese:
Alyson, are you in the medical field? Or child care field? Or have just done a lot of research? Just curious

Having a 13 year old and a 4 year old means lots of research! Plus several friends who are mid-wives and health visitors. Also my OH is highly allergic to many things and ended up in hospital many years ago with anaphylactic shock - he was lucky! So any sign of allergy etc. I watch out for.

It was a health visitor friend who told me the real reason behind the WHO directive as they are obviously briefed on it far more thoroughly than mothers are.

di&andrea - thanks for the back up! Farfalle, I thought that every mother was told this in the UK... They are in Sussex anyway, plus I think one of the books mentioned on here by a poster says virtually the same thing - most parenting books do. A baby that needs a feed at 6 months is either not getting enough during the day or is doing it for comfort. Why remove comfort from a 6 month old? Because one day that 6 month old will be a 4 year old who has never been able to sleep through the night without a drink at 3.00 a.m. And by that time that 4 year old will have a fairly psychotic, sleep deprived parent(s)! It's easy not to think this way when they are tiny and to feel it is cruel, but in the long run it is a good idea to stop the feeds in the early hours at about this age.

quote:

Originally posted by elisamaria:
Hi Amy,
Yes, I've seen sweet potatoes (patate americane) a couple times at the coop, but here in Siena there's a frutta/verdura place in town that always have them, so I keep them on hand. I just made sweet potato bread for an italian friend and she loved it.
Anyway about solids, my baby normally sleeps thru the night just fine ( a couple feedings tho), but since we started solids she hasn't been sleeping well. She's not constipated. Has anyone else seen this? I thought it might just be coincidence w/ teething issues, I don't know.

How long has it been going on? Does it coincide with the temperature going up? If so, increase her fluids and she may be less cranky. Also if she is teething and having to work her gums it may cause discomfort. Many people reccomend homeopathic crystals specially for teething - my daughter just spat them out, but they won't do any harm and may be worth a try!

I did some reading in my "What to Expect the First Year" book. I don't usually like to tell people what to do or give advice without referencing it.

I am an early childhood specialist and am actually certified in the U.S. to care for and educate children from birth to age 8, but have really spent my career life with 3-6 year olds, not infants. Anyway, I still feel more comfortable finding/citing actual references if I'm going to give advice or tell people what to do (which is why I asked if Alyson was health professional or had any professional training in the field). Otherwise I just share what I have personally done with my baby in the past, and people can take it or leave it.

Anyhow....this is what was written in the "What to Expect the First Year" book about babies waking up for nighttime feedings:

"In young infants, the habit of feeding frequently at night is often a nutritionally necessary one. Though some babies no longer need night feedings by the third month (and sometimes sooner), most 2 or 3 month old babies, particularly breastfed ones, still need to eat once or twice during the night."

"By four months, most babies don't really need to be eating at all during the night. (From a strictly metabolic standpoint, babies can usually go through the night without a feeding once they've reached 11 pounds; whether they will or not is another matter entirely.) If the night-waking habit continues into the fifth or sixth month, you can begin to suspect that your baby is waking not because he needs to eat during the night, but because he's become accustomed to eating during the night; a stomach that's used to being filled at regular intervals around the clock will cry "empty" even when it's full enough to last a lot longer."

Then it talks about several ways to get baby to sleep through the night at 6 months, including "ferberizing."

Anyway, that's what this books says, which is pretty much consistent with what Di&Andrea said about babies "are used to getting the milk, even if they are not hungry."

quote:

Originally posted by alyson:

Rice isn't used to get baby used to tasting! If you are worried about a sweet tooth developing mix fruit with the baby rice - if you puree the fruit enough you won't need any water or milk.

I don't think anyone said that rice (I assume you mean rice cereal) was to get the baby "used to tasting", but rather used to using a spoon. I assume everyone knows that usually rice cereal mixed with either formula or breast milk is quite bland. In the "What to Expect the First Year" book it says that rice cereal is a good food to premiere with:

"Because it is easily thinned with to a texture not much thicker than milk, is very easily digested by most infants, is not likely to trigger an allergic reaction (which Alyson stated), and provides needed iron, iron-enriched baby rice cereal is probably the most commonly recommended first food and the number-one first-food choice of the American Academy of Pediatrics. Mix it with formula, breast milk, or water. Resist the temptation to stir in mashed bananas, applesauce, or fruit juices, or to buy prepared cereal with fruit (even down the road, after you've introduced these fruits), or your baby will quickly come to accept only sweet foods, rejecting all else."

"In the first few months of solid feeding (which should begin when baby's ready, somewhere between the ages of four and six months), the actual quantity of food consumed is not of great significance as long as breast or bottle feeding is continued. Eating at first is less a matter of gaining sustenance than of gaining experience - with eating techniques, with different flavors and varying textures, with the social aspects of dining."

There are loads of baby books out there, and I'm sure they all differ on this topic. Probably not even all American baby books say the same thing, let alone baby books from different countries.

this thread has the risk of going off track and more about parenting than Italy.
At the end of the day there is a lot said and written about the topic and many helpful well researched and respected credible sources of information on weaning.
Whether night feeding a baby at 6 months is right or wrong could be debated upon for quite some time and will probably be viewed diffrently depending on what style of parenting approach one has.
I would say though that if baby is happy, healthy, thriving, that it really is not the end of the world if still waking past 6 months for a feed.
There are so many books out there that 'prescribe' what baby should be doing eg go 4 hours between feeds and new mums especially latch on to this nonsense. There are so many variables.

quote:

Originally posted by farfalle:
this thread has the risk of going off track and more about parenting than Italy.

Though I think it's a valid topic especially if you live in Italy and are reading, say, American baby books. Here my Italian pediatrican recommends one way of weaning while the American books say very different things, so it can get very confusing.

Right now I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to handle traveling with my son. Up to now, he's only eaten foods prepared by me and I've weaned the more 'American' way (only carrots, then only peas, then only zucchini, etc.). Yesterday I went to the supermarket to check baby foods that I can take on the plane when we travel next week and was surprised to find only 'mixes' and many of them contain things he's never had (and pastina!). I just don't see how it'd be practical and hygienic to take home-cooked baby foods on a nine-hour flight but I don't want to introduce a bunch of foods he's never tried while traveling.

These are the things I find confusing.
Michelle

You should be able to find the stuff that he is used to eating in the US with out too much trouble. We flew back to the US with Mattia when he was 7 months and had just taken away one of his bottle feedings. We just brought with us a couple (3 I think) of baby food jars and gave him bottles of milk for the rest of the flight. One day (not even) did not bother him at all to just have milk and one small jar of banana or whatever it was.

hi, i follow this method, this is my fourth and only breastfed baby, i introduced solids at 10 months, i started with raw organic egg yolk and frozen grated raw liver, you may i'm mental, but he is the healthiest of all my children, i will introduce grains slowly at 3 years.

http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/nourish-baby.html

hope that helps
d
xx

quote:

Originally posted by Amy Cortese:

quote:

Originally posted by alyson:

Rice isn't used to get baby used to tasting! If you are worried about a sweet tooth developing mix fruit with the baby rice - if you puree the fruit enough you won't need any water or milk.

I don't think anyone said that rice (I assume you mean rice cereal) was to get the baby "used to tasting", but rather used to using a spoon. I assume everyone knows that usually rice cereal mixed with either formula or breast milk is quite bland. In the "What to Expect the First Year" book it says that rice cereal is a good food to premiere with:

"Because it is easily thinned with to a texture not much thicker than milk, is very easily digested by most infants, is not likely to trigger an allergic reaction (which Alyson stated), and provides needed iron, iron-enriched baby rice cereal is probably the most commonly recommended first food and the number-one first-food choice of the American Academy of Pediatrics. Mix it with formula, breast milk, or water. Resist the temptation to stir in mashed bananas, applesauce, or fruit juices, or to buy prepared cereal with fruit (even down the road, after you've introduced these fruits), or your baby will quickly come to accept only sweet foods, rejecting all else."

"In the first few months of solid feeding (which should begin when baby's ready, somewhere between the ages of four and six months), the actual quantity of food consumed is not of great significance as long as breast or bottle feeding is continued. Eating at first is less a matter of gaining sustenance than of gaining experience - with eating techniques, with different flavors and varying textures, with the social aspects of dining."

There are loads of baby books out there, and I'm sure they all differ on this topic. Probably not even all American baby books say the same thing, let alone baby books from different countries.

Thank you for stating further down in your response that I was actually talking about the fact that rice doesn't have any known allergic responses. How you have paraphrased what I said gives it a completely different context unrelated to what I was saying. I'm sorry you are unhappy that the only qualification I have for giving advice is experience as a mother. In many countries this would be enough.

quote:

Originally posted by alyson:

quote:

Originally posted by Amy Cortese:

quote:

Originally posted by alyson:

Rice isn't used to get baby used to tasting! If you are worried about a sweet tooth developing mix fruit with the baby rice - if you puree the fruit enough you won't need any water or milk.

I don't think anyone said that rice (I assume you mean rice cereal) was to get the baby "used to tasting", but rather used to using a spoon. I assume everyone knows that usually rice cereal mixed with either formula or breast milk is quite bland. In the "What to Expect the First Year" book it says that rice cereal is a good food to premiere with:

"Because it is easily thinned with to a texture not much thicker than milk, is very easily digested by most infants, is not likely to trigger an allergic reaction (which Alyson stated), and provides needed iron, iron-enriched baby rice cereal is probably the most commonly recommended first food and the number-one first-food choice of the American Academy of Pediatrics. Mix it with formula, breast milk, or water. Resist the temptation to stir in mashed bananas, applesauce, or fruit juices, or to buy prepared cereal with fruit (even down the road, after you've introduced these fruits), or your baby will quickly come to accept only sweet foods, rejecting all else."

"In the first few months of solid feeding (which should begin when baby's ready, somewhere between the ages of four and six months), the actual quantity of food consumed is not of great significance as long as breast or bottle feeding is continued. Eating at first is less a matter of gaining sustenance than of gaining experience - with eating techniques, with different flavors and varying textures, with the social aspects of dining."

There are loads of baby books out there, and I'm sure they all differ on this topic. Probably not even all American baby books say the same thing, let alone baby books from different countries.

Thank you for stating further down in your response that I was actually talking about the fact that rice doesn't have any known allergic responses. How you have paraphrased what I said gives it a completely different context unrelated to what I was saying. I'm sorry you are unhappy that the only qualification I have for giving advice is experience as a mother. In many countries this would be enough.

I apologize for paraphrasing what you wrote. Here is the full quote (I'm sure people can see what you wrote on the first page of this discussion though.)

"If anyone is interested you can find a great range of recipes for all ages in Annabel Karmel's range of books for babies through to pre-school.

I weaned both my kids at 4 months. By 6 months no baby should need a night time feed(as in 3.00a.m) - this is advice I have been given by all the health professionals in the UK. Also the WHO provisions were made for developing countries but have to encompass the whole world. It is prevent children who don't have access to clean water or much food becoming sick.

Strawberries can cause bad reactions and also the runs, same as citrus. It is right to worry about allergies if they are in your family - then use precautions when introducing new food. Rice isn't used to get baby used to tasting! It is used because it one of the few foods with no known allergy response! Pear is another. Otherwise experiment with different mixes and flavours - try sweet and sour. If you are worried about a sweet tooth developing mix fruit with the baby rice - if you puree the fruit enough you won't need any water or milk. You can also introduce fromage frais from 4 months if you want, most babies love them and it is an additional source of calcium. Also remember breast milk at 12 months isn't what it was at 6 months and at 6 months it isn't what it was at 3 months. All the immunity benefits have been passed over by 6 months and by 12 months it is basically a drink, not a food and shouldn't be relied on to be the main food - your baby should be well weaned and onto 3 small meals by 12 months.

I guarantee most of you won't agree, but personally I find the American way too cautious. Be guided by your baby - not the WHO advice!! Carrots and rice on a regular basis from 4 - 6 months really isn't going to harm your little ones insides - they might even thank you for it!"

However it still doesn't change what I was saying that "I don't think anyone said that rice (I assume you mean rice cereal) was to get the baby "used to tasting", but rather used to using a spoon." Because it is very bland, etc. Unless by "tasting" you meant getting baby used to using a spoon. If this is the case, then I apologize for this misunderstanding as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Amy Cortese:
Does anyone see anything wrong with giving our 11 month old little pieces of prosciutto cotto from the supermarket deli (not cotto in packages)?

My sister used to always feed her children shaved turkey breast from the deli, but I don't see much turkey breast here. So I thought maybe some prosciutto cotto would be good, but maybe a bit salty? Also my baby book says not to feed deli meats unless heated until steamed to prevent listeria. But I'm not convinced that it's such a big risk. I'm just trying to find more finger foods (regular foods) for our baby to eat.

Also what about the frozen fish fingers, if I take away the breading part? Sorry, I'm so used to all the baby food products in the U.S. for all stages (with the stage clearly labeled on the product). My baby is kind of in between the baby and toddler stage I think.

P. Cotto can be given if you trust the deli. I used to say it was for a baby so the first 100 grams would be cut and put in one package and then a few hundred grams more in another. Then when I gave it to my kids, I would just cut off the outside "rind" of the cotto.

Turkey breast is Fesa di tacchino. Can be found now as well as it is packaged (sliced) in the refrigerator section of most larger grocery stores. But I always did my own (cheaper and better for baby.

As for fish sticks. Why? They are full of junk. I bought fish, removed the bones, coated with crushed krisped rice (not the sweet one) and oven roasted.

This is such a hard topic. But as someone said earlier, if your child is happy and thriving then continue with what you are doing. We do not have to listen to anyone but our child IMO.

BTW, I never once bought packaged or premade food for the kids. Breastfed until they self weaned, introduced solids when they wanted nd I have two happy healthy girls. My way may not be right for anyone else but it worked for my family.

proscuitto cotto usually has E252 in it, a preservative. see the attached link

http://www.safekids.co.uk/ENumbersToAvoid.html

i normally give parma ham as it has no preservatives in it, just salt and i have given pure sea salt to my son since he was 10 mths.
hope that helps

Going back to the when to start - I remember when my son was born back in 1995 the advice was not before 4 months and for my daughter in 2004 not before 6 months if possible. BUT there was always a proviso along with this that all the health visitors added. If you had a large baby - over 9lbs at birth or one that hit 12lbs before 4 months then it was recommended to wean early as you would be feeding from dusk til dawn to satisfy such a child, and we are all only human! From friends that have stuck it out until 6 months with big babes they were more likely to be waking for nighttime snacks months after other kids had settled into a more civilised routine! Having a 4 year old that still isn't "civilised" at night, I feel able to say this !

But as Cristina says - go by your kids. Those of us in our 40's were fed alsorts of rubbish compared to today's babies - if anything I think it is the rubbish our teenagers eat now that we should we worried about as this is harder to control!

I'm definitely committed to doing things how I think best. But I get the impression that dh's family is concerned a little insulted that I'm doing things differently from them. How dare I not do it the way it's done here? How dare I not follow a doctor's advice to the letter? (I think that this must be a problem fairly common to parenting, and not just in culturally mixed families, which is why I'm posting this here instead of in Culture Shock.) Advice? Experiences?[/QUOTE]

can't you just tell them she's your baby and you are, after all, american, and americans do it differently from italians, you never know it may work....hopefully. ok, so it probably won't work, but my advise, do what you want to do and don't get bamboozled into doing things with your family you don't want to.

hth

quote:

Originally posted by Cristina:

P. Cotto can be given if you trust the deli. I used to say it was for a baby so the first 100 grams would be cut and put in one package and then a few hundred grams more in another. Then when I gave it to my kids, I would just cut off the outside "rind" of the cotto.

Turkey breast is Fesa di tacchino. Can be found now as well as it is packaged (sliced) in the refrigerator section of most larger grocery stores. But I always did my own (cheaper and better for baby.

As for fish sticks. Why? They are full of junk. I bought fish, removed the bones, coated with crushed krisped rice (not the sweet one) and oven roasted.

This is such a hard topic. But as someone said earlier, if your child is happy and thriving then continue with what you are doing. We do not have to listen to anyone but our child IMO.

BTW, I never once bought packaged or premade food for the kids. Breastfed until they self weaned, introduced solids when they wanted nd I have two happy healthy girls. My way may not be right for anyone else but it worked for my family.

Frankly I think all the products they sell in the deli here are not very appetizing. It sure isn't the nice Boar's Head deli products found in the Publix supermarkets of Florida! And especially the turkey that I have seen here...it looks so fake and processed compared to what I get in Florida. Anyway, doesn't matter because I have to make do with what's here in Italy. The prosciutto cotto (of course without the disgusting inch of fat around it) seems to be the best looking of the deli products here. But I have just been baking chicken in the oven and then cutting it up in little pieces for our baby...seems better.

I guess the packaging label on the Findus Bastoncini is false then, because it says 100% filet of merluzzo. (I always take the breading off of the fish for the baby.) But if I can't trust that it's 100% fish, I guess I will stop with the fish sticks. I don't buy the "fresh" fish here because it always smells bad and fishy which is a sign that it is indeed not fresh. Sorry, I grew up in Florida...a bit spoiled with all the real fresh grouper, snapper, flounder, etc. So I figured frozen was better/safer here than the terrible looking (and smelling) fish they have at the supermarkets here. Maybe in the south of Italy near the sea there is a better selection of good quality fresh fish, but I've yet to find any here in Torino.

Torino has a pretty good fish market from what I remember. I think you just need to check out other stores. I live no where near the sea and have very good fresh fish here. Only buy fish on Tuesdays and Fridays though. Sorry, I am really anti packaged foods. Also for deli meats, again, find a better store, the turkey breast that I get is beautiful and fresh, but again, you can make your own.

Haven't read the whole thread but just a few points:

- Rice cereal is processed, refined junk. The only good thing it might have in it is added iron and if you are breastfeeding, the iron in your breastmilk is far more absorbable and less hard on the liver.

- The WHO recommends starting solids at 6 months, earliest.

- The best way to begin solids is to just forget about all the purees and offer your little one soft pieces of things (banana, avocado, soft bread, a green bean, a piece of potato) and let her feed herself. That way, she takes a natural interest in the food without you forcing it on her. Most purees have very little nutritional value once they have been cooked that long, anyway.

Good luck. I really would just ignore your inlaws. Tell them you are "following the recommendation of the WHO, but thank you for your concern."

Amy, I don't know where you are shopping for fish, but we love the fish here, and my husband is Pugliese and used to the very freshest and best fish. May I recommend:
1. The market in Via Madama Cristina, the last stand extreme south of the market. Arguably some of the freshest fish in Italy. They are also VERY nice and will clean and prepare just about anything for you.
2. The Santa Giulia market in the Vanchiglia district, my market, the stand is at Corso Regina. The fish is unbelievably fresh and beautiful.
3. They say the fish market at Porto Palazzo is remarkable. I don't go as it's not convenient, but if it's near you, you might check it out.

Buon Appetito!

quote:

Originally posted by Laurie:
Amy, I don't know where you are shopping for fish, but we love the fish here, and my husband is Pugliese and used to the very freshest and best fish. May I recommend:
1. The market in Via Madama Cristina, the last stand extreme south of the market. Arguably some of the freshest fish in Italy. They are also VERY nice and will clean and prepare just about anything for you.
2. The Santa Giulia market in the Vanchiglia district, my market, the stand is at Corso Regina. The fish is unbelievably fresh and beautiful.
3. They say the fish market at Porto Palazzo is remarkable. I don't go as it's not convenient, but if it's near you, you might check it out.

Buon Appetito!

Thanks for the tips Laurie. I have only tried the fish in the supermarkets (Carrefour, Ipercoop, etc.)

I know this is off topic but... Could you recommend which type of fish you have found here in Torino to be the best (freshest)? I just don't know the fish here, and my problem could be that I am getting the wrong kinds of fish here in Italy. I know we are not on the sea, but which fish here in Torino would you consider to be the most "local" and freshest? My husband (who is also from the south - Naples) is quite useless when it comes to fish. I have tried to find out the Italian names of fish that I like back in Florida, like grouper, amberjack, snapper, flounder, pompano, etc. And he really doesn't know (but he's also not a huge fan of fish). It is very probable that t