i am sorry i offended you, it was not my intention, i was merely trying to point out that health visitors aren't always the best people to take advice from, i also think baby formula is made to make profits and that's it, nestle, who invented formula in the 1800's, has been told for years by WHO and UNICEF to stop marketing formula to african women, it is against the law and kills one and a half million babies a year. i also wish i had had some heavy-handed lecturing wen i gave birth to my first of now four children in 1987, instead i got, "don't worry love, give her formula it's just as good as the real stuff and then again in 1995 when i gave birth again, "oh, is it uncomfortable, never mind, formula is just as good" and the last time was 2003, when the health visitors actually recommended the cheapest formula because it was government subsidised. my last child was born in 2007 in canada, by then i knew that formula was an inferior product, the health visitor arrived with a lactation specialist and actually showed me what me and my son were doing wrong, the reason i stuck at this time was because as far as i was concerned there was no alternative and i had to breastfeed, perhaps if that was everyones first agenda instead of letting people think formula is just as good as the real thing we would have a far healthier world.
my last child was the only one breast fed and is the healthiest one of the lot, i am still breastfeeding him and he started solids at 10 months, not three as advised on some formula tins, my other three children have raging allergies, bad flora and behavioural disorders.
ciao
d
x

quote:

Originally posted by dawnbee:
has been told for years by WHO and UNICEF to stop marketing formula to african women, it is against the law and kills one and a half million babies a year.
x

BUT do you understand WHY these babies die?! It isn't the formula - it is the dirty, filthy, disease ridden water that their mothers are forced to use to make it up with that kills them. They aren't given the ready made stuff. This is the MAIN reason for the WHO reccomendations. I'm not saying breast isn't best - it probably is, and like C in Bo I'm not going into why I didn't BF yet again. But I will say yet again, if not BF makes your children thick, autistic, whatever, then my son should probably have been a genius! He attends one of the best academic schools in the UK and I fed him myself for all of 2 weeks combined with formula. There is enough out there to make mums feel guilty. In the 60's when I was born it was normal to thicken formula with rusk and spoon feed babies from 2 months with a salty beef broth. If I'm shorter than I should be from this experience, fair enough, but otherwise I'm doing pretty well, thank you! Motherhood is supposed to be a joyous occupation, not one riddled with guilt.

if not BF makes your children thick, autistic, whatever,


what does this mean?? "thick, autistic, whatever," now who's being offensive??? i happen to have a child who used to be on the autistic spectrum and labelling him in with thick and whatever just shows your ignorance,
and yes, i know children in africa die from the dirty water, but if the companies hadn't marketed the formula to the mums in the first place, they wouldn't have to use the dirty water, they also wouldn't have to watch their babies die from hunger because they can't afford the formula anymore, breastmilk is free.

This is strange! I have a friend who attends and works at Yale, and he was not BF. My husband who was not BF is incredibly smart. My son who is 20m was not BF and is one of the healthiest babies my ped has seen.. he has had one day of high temperatures in all of his life. He has currently no allergies, but will develop them when he is older due to a hereditary problem on my side.... I have something similar to atopic dermatitis, I never graduated, I am overweight, etc. I was BF.

lol.. go figure!

I tend to think that probably, all things being equal, breastmilk is better (slightly) but that the wonders are greatly exaggerated in certain quarters as well.

Of course data is not the plural of anecdote but I WAS breastfed and I have horrible allergies (and I'm stupid! ).

quote:

Originally posted by dawnbee:
if not BF makes your children thick, autistic, whatever,


what does this mean?? "thick, autistic, whatever," now who's being offensive??? i happen to have a child who used to be on the autistic spectrum and labelling him in with thick and whatever just shows your ignorance,
and yes, i know children in africa die from the dirty water, but if the companies hadn't marketed the formula to the mums in the first place, they wouldn't have to use the dirty water, they also wouldn't have to watch their babies die from hunger because they can't afford the formula anymore, breastmilk is free.

I'm sorry, I was paraphrasing your reply where you said formula was an open invitation to autism, asthma, ear infections, I just didn't want to have to write them all out again, so said, "whatever". As to having your son labelled in with thick, that wasn't the intention, but I think you know that. There has been much in the press in recent years stating that bottlefed babies are thicker than their BF peers. SO, along with autism, being thick (to use the lovely language of the media) and whatever - formula fed babes apparently don't stand a chance! I was saying this is not only wrong, in my experience, but unfair. And it seems from the replies above, I'm not the only one who thinks this.

And to add to the anecdotal evidence above, my darling OH was breastfed for 12mths. He has had several severe allergy attacks, one resulting in anaphylactic shock and a prolonged stay in hospital and he has fought his weight all his life.. Go figure!

quote:

Originally posted by Professoressa:
I'm wondering how other parents who chose not to follow the ped's advice about introducing solids to infants have dealt with surprised and/or shocked in-laws, friends, neighbors, etc.

by using the Data Protection Act.

which is the Act of printing off reams of paper, from WHO, from British Goverenment website, from the BBC "Doctor", from UK local health authorities, from anywhere that looked impressive/serious/non-wacky, photocopying several times over and arming the nappy bag with a t least three stapled "accumulated reports" at any given time.

People tend to shut up when you whack them with a clump of papers at the first "ma signora ! non si fa cosi'....", saying ....

"this is some of the research I have done outlining the basis for my decsions, have a read and let me know which points in particular trouble you."

I didn't translate either, I left it all in English, I gambled on only the truely dedicated (as opposed to looking forward to some afternnon ball breaking) wading through that lot. Nobody ever got back to me LOL.

I did translate verbally for MIL but she glazed over by page nine and to be fair once we had establised that what i was doing was the UK norm and kids weren't dropping like flies there, she did back off.

The Date Protection Act is a technique i have reproduced for other culture clash senarios relating to the kid. (the refusal of willy attack was I think the first time I used it)

Its one major failing is sore shoulder and a deep nostalgia for a spacious nappy bag.

And you must never run out of your stash of photocopied swords, cos you get dependnat on them, forget how to verbalise your argument and get set upon by a random person with strong opinions.

I dont' really think it matters whether you use "their" or "your" or "my" cultural preferences for weaning...last itme I looked kids weren't dropping like flies and I think there is room for both what makes you comfortable and what can be sucessfully adopted from the local culture.

In retrospect I am not sure why I was so convinced the UK way was better...I have a sneaking suspition that such is my stroppy nature that the more people tried to steer me to what they were comfortable with the more |i dug my heels in and refused to even consider the unfamiliar.

Which is probably still applicable today in some senarios..although I am less hormonal..sometimes.

Anyway, he is 8 now, he, I and MIL all survived the culture clashes of his babyhood and toodlerhood. Just about, I am sure she still does mock horror "ha ! that is nothing compared to what my strange forign DIL put me thruogh! " with the other nonnies given half a chance.

quote:

Originally posted by di&andrea:
This is strange! I have a friend who attends and works at Yale, and he was not BF. My husband who was not BF is incredibly smart. My son who is 20m was not BF and is one of the healthiest babies my ped has seen.. he has had one day of high temperatures in all of his life. He has currently no allergies, but will develop them when he is older due to a hereditary problem on my side.... I have something similar to atopic dermatitis, I never graduated, I am overweight, etc. I was BF.

lol.. go figure!

.....and just to complete the 'set' - my son was neither breastfed (that ran out after three days), nor was he fed formula - he absolutely refused that from the first taste. But with careful additions prescribed by our doctor he survived on pasteurised milk from the shop!

He is now 41, has suffered no major illnesses but is (alas) allergic to feathers and house dust. He has an appetite like a horse - now ... but from birth to 12 years he was a utter nightmare to feed.

There's another one to 'go figure'!

My edition of Dr Spock (!) which was the latest and most up to date 8 years ago, still had instructions in it for making formula from evaporated milk!! He was basically saying if all else fails and you can't get formula use this! Not saying I would mind, but it does show how things constantly change.

I'm also going to throw in here that I did swop my daughter over to goat's milk formula at 6 months as she is a bit cranky with her digestive system. It didn't help one way or the other but it is supposed to be better than cow if anyone is interested. It costs roughly 3x the price though!

My daughter is almost 6 months old and we've decided that as soon as she's over her illness we're going to start with solid food.

We saw our paediatrician yesterday and she gave us a detailed feeding plan which (as others have noted above) contains no veggies at all except in a broth and meat from the very beginning! Also pastina which I assume is made of wheat and contains glutein? I told the paed about my history of allergies and her response was to say that the brodo should be made of only beet and carrot as these veggies never cause allergic reactions. I'm now kind of imagining trying to feed the baby this bright red beet juice and it going everywhere... Beet/carrot broth and liquified rabbit and lamb certainly don't sound like a very appetising way to introduce my baby to the wonderful world of food. Also the plan, from the very beginning, says that I should only breastfeed 3 times a day. I can't imagine how I can go from feeding her 7-8 times a day to just 3 by introducing a few spoonfuls of food...

So I think I'm going to follow my Australian baby book (Baby Love by Robyn Barker) which has a much more relaxed and IMO food positive attitude to the whole thing. At 6 months she recommends any or all of the following foods:

Rice cereal mixed with breast milk or formula
Cooked apples and pears
Mashed bananas
Mashed avocado
Home made fruit gels in summer
Full fat natural yoghurt
Cooked mashed vegetables -such as potato, pumpkin or carrot to start with and later on broccoli, zucchini, spinach etc etc
Chicken soup (if you're from a culture which gives chicken soup to babies).

She says to keep breastfeeding on demand when giving solid foods- around 5-6 times a day -and to gradually taper off. I'm much more comfortable with this as it seems more gradual.

According to Barker, only during month 7 onwards are you meant to start meat (if you eat it) as well as a widely varied diet including things like tofu, egg yolks, weetbix, rusks, cheese and whatever the family is eating ground up. She does not recommend the store bought liquified meat which my paed recommended.

Anyway - just wondering what others' experiences have been with starting solids in Italy. Did anyone do a mixture of their own country's plan and the Italian one? I may follow some of the Italian way for example adding parm cheese to the veggies (or maybe a tiny bit of olive oil) but am going to avoid certain other things completely - like the jarred liquified meat and the beet broth.

And I plan to keep breastfeeding as long as the baby wants to breastfeed. It seems really harsh to wean her so suddenly without a good reason.

Hi,

this topic is starting to become interesting for me too...
Just a curiosity...what's wrong with pastina? Here babies are fed through pastina and brodo vegetale from the very beginning and I don't think Italian babies are "dropping like flies" (as another poster pointed out) out of allergies to glutine...nor Italians are more allergic to gluten than any other people in the world...

Anyway another tip about meat: my grandma bought me magro macinato finissimo di prima scelta, cooked it in water, a drip of olive oil and parmigiano (NO SALT at all), a terrific substitute for omogeneizzati and a great way to introduce me to meat. I still have my mouth watering at the simple thought of polpette di magro and Parmigiano (the adult version is mashing the meat with a drip of milk, and cooking them in wine, then raw olive oil added at the end-- Gabriele is going crazy).
Ask your ped about the baby version, I'm 37 and still alive

Anyway very interesting and refreshing to know about the many ways to introduce solids. I like to know other ways.

Chia

That does sound yummier, Chia. I think what I'll end up doing is a combo of the two styles. But I don't think I'll have time to buy or cook lots of special foods for the baby. Probably I'll just start giving her meat when she's ready to eat what we eat ground up in a mouli. That's what my mum did with my sister.

Yes - in Australia they recommend not giving wheat until a certain age particularly if (like me) you have have a family history of food allergies. So I think I'll skip the pastina and stick to things like rice cereal and potatoes for starch.

We did more or less of a mix. Our ped. actually recomended it. She gave us a sheet that had listed the months of the child and what food should be introduced for those months, but she said that this was the italian way, and that if I wanted to try to mix it up a bit, that that would be great.
For the pastina, when it comes time to introduce pasta, you can maybe try some of the rice pasta.. forget what it is called. It worked really well for us to switch to real solid food.

We just started our 7.5 month old daughter on solids about a month ago. I am trying a mixed American-Italian approach that so far seems to be working well. I am just a little confused as to how many times she should be eating per day and I have no idea as to how much milk she's getting as she's breastfed. I am making everything at home because I am fortunate enough to have the time and I was a little put off by the Italian baby food products for the same reasons previous posters mentioned.
We are still in the 'tasting" phase, but she has been eating once a day, rice or oatmeal cereal mixed with breast milk, followed by fruit tastings. So far, she has tried apples, pears, and bananas, as well as combos of the above. For the first time today, I made the brodo with one carrot, zuchini, and potato and mixed with rice cereal and a little spoon of olive oil instead of breastmilk, just to start getting her used to different flavors. She liked it well enough and I think from now on, I will do one feeding with breastmilk and one with broth. She is definitely ready to eat at least two meals per day. Carrots and pumpkin are next on my list. Now that she's older, I don't have any problems having her try pastina as well after she gets used tot he brodo. Although there is a correlation between introducing gluten to early to infants and celiac disease, I've recently read that delaying the introduction of gluten can also prolong the onset of such allergies. Since we have major gluten allergies and two family members with celiacs in the family, I wanted to wait for pastina, but now she is old enough to try it and if she has any symptoms, it's better to know now and adjust her diet accordingly.

I still nurse about 5 times per day and I also let her nurse a little after her solid foods as she still gets thirsty. She hasn't been a big fan of water, so she drinks a little milk after her meals.

Just started solids today. Today is the 6 month anniversary of our baby's due date and one week until her 6 month birthday so it seemed like the moment. I bought a can of rice cereal (Nestle Mio Crema di Riso instantanea) and was planning to give her that mixed with breastmilk as her first food but although the ingredients list did not contain sugar when I tasted it it was extremely sweet. It also smelled strongly of vanilla which seemed a bit odd for a cereal. The one ingredient which I wasn't certain about was "vanillina" - could that be where the sweetness comes from? Apart from that the ingredients are "farina di riso, farina di riso diastasata, sali minerali and vitamine.

So I ended up just mashing up some banana with a bit of breastmilk and feeding her that for her first 'solids' meal instead. She liked it!

Anyway I went to the healthfood shop and bought a packet of organic rice cereal from Germany which says in large letters "no added sugar". I don't get how they managed to get the sweetness into the mio brand rice cereal without listing sugar? Very sneaky!

Any cereal recommendations? I'd also like to start A on some oat cereal but have not been able to find that. Almost all the cereals at the supermarket seemed to contain wheat.

One source for imitation vanilla flavoring (called "vanillin") is the waste product of paper mills. Some companies built factories next to the pulp mills to turn the undesirable by-product into imitation flavoring, widely used in many cookies, candies and other foods.

http://www.feingold.org/pg-overview.html

something to think about
d
xx

I first bought the crema di riso by Mellin, which seemed to be more natural than the Plasmon one, but I agree it smelled and tasted very sweet with a vanilla smell. Then, the other day I found an organic one by Milupa in the pharmacy and this one doesn't smell or taste sweet.

The oatmeal I brought back from the U.S.