I had told my GYN what I wanted, and he said that it was all normal and that I should not worry about it. I think that the problem was that he was not there at the birth, and while one doctor would have done things one way, another would do things completely differently. I think that a big thing is who you get, if you can request him/her if they are not there right then, and who has the same 'ideas' as that person if you are not able to have the person you want.....
um... does that make any sense?

I'm kind of having that problem right now. I read all these US books and websites and they talk about things which are apparently completely standard in US hospitals but which frankly don't happen here in Rome unless you pay a lot of money to go private as if they are my "right" but I know that I need to lower my expectations drastically in order to survive birth here. For example - birth plans, private rooms, showers, having your own doctor at the birth, rooming in but also having a nursery available, being able to rent a breast pump at the hospital, lactation consultants being available, not having certain procedures done to you without your consent, being guaranteed that you won't be turned away from the hospital when you arrive and are in labour, polite, attentive nurses etc etc. Like michelle I've kind of stopped reading those sites and books as it's just too disappointing. I also often wonder what all these US women are complaining about. The C-section and otheintervention rate is so much lower there and women get to pretty much do what they want in labour.

I think that this is the same problem your course could have unless you really do your research and find out what's possible in your region or maybe concentrate only on homebirths.

BTW- I've heard that the area around Trento is really fantastic for birth so the stuff we complain about here further south may not even apply to your area - remember you're right near Northern Europe so there is a lot of northern European influence up there.

I've been reading the US and UK books and websites too, mainly because they're in English. But I have read a couple of Italian books and websites. I'm 26 weeks along now, so I'd better get talking more to my OB/GYN. After the things I've read here I really have no idea what to expect anymore although, never having given birth before, I at least don't have another (possibly better) experience to compare it with.

quote:

The whole "right to pain relief" has me floored. So, that would imply that if you are not induced, you don't have the right?

Sorry I didn't explain myself very well! My SIL told me that where she gave birth in the UK you were automatically given pain relief with an induction - an epidural - unless you asked not to. In Italy I was induced when there was no pain relief available at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Ramona:
...being able to rent a breast pump at the hospital, lactation consultants being available, not having certain procedures done to you without your consent, being guaranteed that you won't be turned away from the hospital when you arrive and are in labour, polite, attentive nurses etc etc.

Ramona,
You can rent the breast pump in just about any pharmacy (at least here in Milan - I'd imagine it'd be the same in Rome). Lactation consultants are available at the consultorio familiare. I found a great one and after our initial consultation, she made a big effort to contact me every week to see if I had any questions. As for not having polite nurses in the hospitals and birthing suites, honestly, you just get over it. I ran up against some of my biggest fears in the hospital, and because I was half expecting many of these things to happen, I didn't suffer from any disappointment or shock. I just went with the flow. During labor a lot of things you'd think would bother you just don't bother you. A pretty suite or a nice nurse won't make the pain go away. Obviously it is preferable to be comfortable and to have pleasant people around you, but at the end of the day, you are the one doing the work. I worked as much as I could on my mental game beforehand - self-hypnosis, meditation, etc. and that helped greatly. Quite frankly, the first month home with the baby was ten times harder than anything I faced in the hospital - and that includes labor. If you (or any other pregnant woman on this board) would like to call me, I can fill you in on what I've learned about being pregnant and having a baby here. I'll give you my number or Skype name.
Michelle

I am learning so much from the comments here...

I think in the grand scheme, a lot of what might bother me about the health care system shouldn't go into a childbirth education class. It's just too much of a battle for me and especially for a pregnant woman to take on. I'm not saying I'll give up, but there is another place for that kind of advocacy.

I think a helpful class might include the usual information about what is physically happening during birth... that's the same no matter where you are. But now I'm also thinking of providing contact information for the consultorio familiare (thanks Michelle!) and maybe even having a representative come to one of the classes. It seems to me that part of what expat English speakers will need to face is a different health care culture. That might be a good topic of discussion... ways the students have found to deal with this and we could share our solutions with one another.

By the way peeps, just to let you know that in general if I ever say that some Ex pats that I know criticise the Italian birth and hospital systems I face a lot of anger. EVen my H2b has at times branded me an arrogant English person who thinks that the UK is superior (which is FAR from the truth) for comments I made once. There is at times a simmering resentment under the surface when we imply that things done the Italian way are inferior even if it is sometimes justified. So be careful.
Now my pregnancy and birth experience was fine. But perhaps I was one of those "in" as kanga put it. However on the occasions when I asked ques at my birth classes and then replied "oh that is very different from the UK" I often could see angry looks flash my way from some of the ladies.

Just an observation

Hi Kanga
From what I gather a large issue is the variation of experiences, eg pain relief in some hospitals and not others, rooming in in some places and not in others etc etc.
However I feel that the main issue is that RESEACH evidence based should guide practice and if this were the case common practices would be adopted across the board.
When I had my daughter she was taken almost immediately away from me bcause she did not breath spontaneaouly and despite my requsts and tears I was not taken to see her or NIne hours.
We know from research (lots Of it) how damaging this can be. All neonatal units in the UK actively encourage parents to visit and do whatever they can for their little ones as soon as possible as research has highlighted how important this is for mother and infant wellbeing. When I was 'allowed' to visit it was made quite clear to me that I would be summoned when needed. I was not welcome to turn up when I wanted to.
I would be well behind you in doing anything proactive in trying to change things if only to raise more awareness. I passionately believe that whenever possible pregnancy and birth should be an empowering, life enhancing experience to be a hopefully a treasured memory and not an undignified, uncaring, unsafe disempowering experience that leaves new mums feeling bewildered and to be quite honest 'assalted'.

On Friday I saw a friend for the first time in three years. During that time she and her husband succeeded in finally having a baby they'd been trying for for a long time. Her story, to me anyway, was very heartening. It was the first time I'd ever personally heard a woman say they had a positive birth experience here. She's Italian, lives in Cerveteri, and gave birth in Gemelli Hospital in Rome. Her doctor encouraged her to go through the required routine for securing an epidural. She did, and after 13 hours of labor had dilated to the required 4 centimeters. At that point she decided that she did, indeed, want the epidural. They gave it to her and said from then on, the experience was only positive, that she could focus on what was happening and actually enjoy the process. She said that she could here other women screaming in pain, and she asked if those women had not done the epidural paperwork. The answer was that no, they hadn't.

Now, as you can imagine, I am pro- pain relief, but more importantly, I am for women having choices. If it's the woman's choice to labor with no pain relief, she should have it. However, if it is the doctor's laziness/religious/personal beliefs or the "system's" cheapness/indifference/disorganization that makes the choice for her, it is UNACCEPTABLE and anzitutto cruel.

Hi!I am an American nurse living in Rome since last August. I have also taught childbirth & breastfeeding classes. Where are you living? It would be fun to talk Lynn
www.RomeMama.com

I live in Trento. Pretty far from Rome, but I can skype you or try to see you on our next visit (my husband is from Rome).

Have you taught any classes in Rome? Are you working as a nurse in Italy?

Maybe I'll PM you with my contact info...
Kanga

Hello Kanga,

This has been an interesting thread to say the least as I am five months pregnant and navigating through the system myself. I probably can't offer you much insight as I'm finding out information as I go along, but for what it's worth, I live in Bolzano, not far from Trento, so if you want to chat or meet up sometime, give me a yell.

quote:

she asked if those women had not done the epidural paperwork. The answer was that no, they hadn't.

Just bear in mind that sometimes you can do all the necessary paperwork and attend the training day and still not get an epidural because you have the cheek to give birth at the weekend!

Hi all... still stewing on this. I've been polling local folks about this issue. Anywho..
Sans...
I would love to chat. You might be interested in the International Women's Forum in Bologna if you haven't already checked them out. They would probably be really great in helping you navigate the system there.
I'll keep you posted at this thread,
Kanga