I need advice on how best to handle our schooling situation.

We homeschool our three children, ages five, seven, and nine, and will continue to homeschool them for the time we are in Italy--15 to 18 months. After reading all the posts about homeschooling, it seems that staying under the radar might not be so easy, given what people have written here about Italians and how they view/talk about school.

Do I speak to the local school superintendent and try to explain the situation? Should I get the Maine Right to Homeschool Law translated into Italian? Or should I not say anything to anybody?

I'm trying to best gauge the Italian temperment about rules and regulations, and I guess the real question is: do I ask permission or do I take my chances and hope I don't get brought into the questura's office?

Any thoughts, advice, or recounting of first-hand experience would be most appreciated.

Thanks!

Judith

US laws (or Maine laws) are not a concern of the Italian state and nation. Since you are residing in Italy you are stuck with the Italian law while on Italian soil. Basically, any act against the law you may commit in Italy (no, I don't think you are planning to kill anyone ^_^) will be judged according to the Italian codes.
Do not try to sneak, get informed exactly about what the Italian law requires of parents. As I said before, according to our law all parents are required to give a proper education to their children. I do not know wether this may or may not include homeschooling, but it certainly includes the need to pass tests at the end of each year for all children that do not go to Italian public, state-owned schools, and these tests are based on the Italian programs, which are established by our Education office.

When we were at the consulate last week to get our visas--including for our 7 year old, the woman we spoke with was very clear in wanting to know what school Casey would attend. In fact, she thought that maybe we would need to get proof of enrollment prior to granting of his visa.At this point, we have not heard back from the consulate per status of our apps so don't know how this will play out. We were able to tell her the school and our efforts at this time for enrollment--school wants us there for the process. She seemed somewhat satisfied with what we had done and our plans.

I'm all for doing what's legal. So I'm permitted to homeschool as long as the children show up for the tests at the end of the school year?

I do not even know wether it is actually legal to homeschool. As I said, the Italian Constitution requires all parents to give their children education. Wether the law has been developed to include homeschooling or not I do not know. It may just be plainly not allowed and compared to "evasione scolastica" (aka not sending your children to school at all). Also, if your younger son or daughter is five, I think he or she will have to be in school as well according to the recent reform.

Decreto Legislativo 15 aprile 2005, n. 76
art. 1 comma 4

(Decree on the duties and rights about instruction)

"I genitori, o chi ne fa le veci, che intendano provvedere privatamente o direttamente all'istruzione dei propri figli, ai fini dell'esercizio del diritto-dovere, devono dimostrare di averne la capacità tecnica o economica e darne comunicazione anno per anno alla competente autorità, che provvede agli opportuni controlli."
(Parents and their proxies that want to instruct privately or directly their children, must show to have the technical and economic capacity to do so and notify every year the school autority, that will do the necessary controls).

http://www.istruzione.it/normativa/2005/dlgs76_05.shtml

Three observations:

1. I do not know anybody doing homeschooling in Italy; this is very rare. I would expect that the test would involve the same subjects given to Italian children of comparable age - so including Italian language, history and literature.

2. Other people will be more competent than me about this subject, but I understand that Italian public schools - while the structures may be not as beautiful as in USA - have less problems with drugs and firearms than in the USA. So maybe a big concern about sending children to public school is not as pressing as you think.

3. Your children will be immersed suddenly in a non English speaking environment. Sending them to a public school is probably the easiest way to ease the pression on them, as they are likely to learn the language much more quickly than you may think.

Well, I know nothin' about Italian school laws, but if you are only going to live there for 15-18 months, do you really have to have your kids in school? It isn't permanent and you could just say that you are homeschooling for the American system, which you will return to...maybe? Again, I don't know anything, but am more wondering. Good luck.

PS--I was born in Lewiston!

Firearms and drugs in schools. Well, despite the fact that my high school was quite well known for being kinda rowdy as well as extremely liberal, the only weapon I ever saw near there were the guns of the Carabinieri who had a caserma near it and of the policemen standing in front of the "palazzaccio" (the tribunal, Palazzo di Giustizia); as for drugs, lots of maryjane (some teachers too ), but there was only one student out of 1200 that was pretty well known for using any other drug (heroine), and never inside the school anyhow (no evidence was ever found, at least). And that was in high school (twenty years ago, OK). I have never seen more than a sigarette all thorugh elementary school and junior high, and that was because the "bidelle" sometimes hid in the toilets to smoke. Other violent acts: in one instance some guys from our school beat down the attempt of some fascist guys to enter the school to do their propaganda, and that's it. The teachers scolded them and menaced that if the case repeated itself they would have to take measures, kinda like being reprimended in a firmer way.

ichivarius- ...I find it a little hard to believe that there are a lot of "drugs and firearms" in the public school in Denmark, Maine. So - I'm sure that's not the reason the OP chooses to homeschool her children. There are many reasons to homeschool and fear of drugs and firearms seems like it would be pretty a pretty unusual one...

Anyway - I have friends here in Rome who send their kids to the French school. They tell me that foreign children are not required to follow the Italian school curriculum and pass all the Italian tests. In fact many of the kids at the French school (as well as other foreign schools here) do not study Italian history or speak fluent Italian. Instead, the children follow the French national curriculum leading to the baccaulaureat. It's similar atthe American, British, Iranian, etc etc schools here in Italy. So - maybe the best tactic would be to apply for an exception to following the Italian curriculum and taking the tests on the basis that you will only be in the country for a short time and then your kids will go back to the US.

As far as the Italian temperament re rules goes - don't get me started! A more bureaucratic country probably does not exist. And unfortunately Italians tend not to question the rules and the state as much as foreigners do. For example, home birth is also extremely rare and/or illegal here - whereas throughout the rest of Europe and the US it is completely normal. Home schooling is the same.

Julie, as I said before, if you are in italy you are subject to Italian laws and therefore your children myust be educated according to the Italian legal requirements. In Italy not complying with them is a crime (a felony, not just a misdemanor). The reasons why laws are so strict is that in most of Italy (and to adegree the problem is still present in some areas), until not so long ago parents just didn't send their children to school, not even for the required years. They were instead sent to work at a very early age (like 8 or 9). As I have said, in some areas of Italy (especially in the poor areas of some Southern Italian cities) the problem is still, unfortunately, very much alive.

rptm: homebirth is perfectly legal. The reason why it's little praticed is partially that homes do not grant the safety and hygiene that an hospital grants, partially that many hospitals are now getting equipped with "soft rooms" that are just like domestic rooms but with the heightened hygiene levels that ah hospital can afford and, what's most importnat, with the constant presence of professionals ready to intervene in case anything goes wrong and, finally and sadly, because the hospitals get lots of money out of births, especiually when they can forge the mothers to have a c-section.

Boy this is one contentious topic!

Itarchivarius--I just found that law and was working on a translation when I saw your message pop up. I have a Master's degree as well as being ABD (never filed my PhD dissertation but completed the coursework, exams and basically wrote the thing, but that's another story) so I might be able to convince the authorities that I am competent to teach my children.

As for why we homeschool: please for a moment imagine our life. This will be our twelfth move in nine years , which means my children would routinely start at a new school after the beginning of the school year, when friendships have already been made, cliques established, and they would be pulled out before the year ends, before they get the chance to perform in the school play or recital that they had been practicing for, or maybe didn't sign up for because they knew they wouldn't be around for it anyway. Schools vary from country to country, in their expectations as well as in how they go about meeting those expectations. When you are constantly popping in and out of schools, you never get a sense of belonging, teachers don't invest the time in your children because you'll be leaving soon anyway, and there's very little feeling of acomplishment.

Homeschooling has been the one constancy in my children's lives, and it has proved psychologically and emotionally healthier for the entire family than has putting them in and taking them out of school every few months.

Homeschooling may not be for everyone, but for our lifestyle it has been the best way to educate our children.

Judith

Just out of interest Judith...

...have you got an uncanny aim with a piece of chalk at 15-20 yards, especially if its aimed at my head?

If so you automatically qualify as an excellent and accomplished teacher.

With the recent legislation by Ministra Moratti, home schooling is accepted in Italy. Before this legislation, children were home-schooled for medical reasons. A long hospital stay coupled with recuperation time at home where teachers would visit, tutors were hired, etc.

When you get a chance, have a look at: www.utilecomune.com/scuola_paterna.htm You might want to print this out for your visit with the Consular office.

And let us know how things go?

Best,

Rita
www.tartarugatours.com
...the take your time way to travel

Judith, you may have credentials which prove your compentency to teach your children at home. However, when in Italy, your credentials may not have much weight, if Italian laws stipulate that your children will have to attend public school.

There are advantages to the public school, which could be, to make a lifelong friend(s), and to interact with a culture that may or may not be foreign to them, thus making it a learning experience in itself.

Have you looked into correspondence school programs for children? Boaters who live aboard and cruise around the world usually enroll their children in this kind of program, and essentially "home school." You could probably find one by finding a liveaboard Website or Googling "correspondence schools."- Since this is part of a formal educational system (like a private school), maybe it would be acceptable for 18 months.

Rita, thanks for the link, and I'll definitely keep everyone posted as to what the consulate says.

Angelo, we will be in Italy for fifteen to eighteen months before we move to Belgium for a year. Having them in an Italian school for essentially one year would prove to be a headache. We tried a French-immersion school in Canada. One child was overwhelmed, the other was bored. I'd end up teaching them all the coursework they couldn't understand being taught in Italian, ie math, science, history, as well as keeping them up to speed on English grammar, Latin, and my oldest will start ancient Greek next year.

Over the years we have found that school isn't the only place to socialize and make life-long friends. There is always the misconception that homeschooled children don't know how to socialize. On the contrary, our children are routinely complemented in social situations for their maturity, poise, and aplomb. I don't foresee them having a problem making friends in Italy, but I thank you for your concern.

Judith

Yes, ALice--ho capito. You were clear. However, my point was that many of us go to Italy for longer stays and don't sign up for school. My question was more directed at any minimum length of time for being in Italy. I mean, 1 year isn't that long in the scheme of a lifetime! (Unless you are 3 LOL) If it is temporary, perhaps they would allow her to homeschool, that is all. I got the deal with the law. (Note to self--Italy not as progressive or flexible in some areas. )

Great link Rita! Good information to know.

Judith, I didn`t mean to offend you in my reply. sorry. I don`t know your situation, and perhaps home schooling better suits your needs than public school. I guess only you can answer that, and what`s best for your family

Judith, don't despair - it IS done, by both Italian and foreigners, and there is support out there. Go to http://groups.msn.com/HomeschoolingFamiliesinItaly

I used to hang out there a bit when I was considering homeschooling for my daughter (though she's now happy in a private Catholic school).

long ps:

If Ross and I had concluded that homeschooling was right for her - and we considered it - we would have done it, come hell or high water. But we decided that neither of us was well-suited to homeschooling.

This is a decision that every individual family should make for themselves. Most "schools" as conceived and executed today are just not for everybody, and Italian schools are particularly inflexible in their teaching methods, having little to no concept of learning styles, learning differences, or even learning disabilities (e.g. dyslexia) that are well understood elsewhere. There is a lot of material on my website about our experiences (and frustrations) with this.

Sometimes you have to find a different solution. Judith and her family have obviously found what works for them.

You see, I do not discuss the decision that some families make to homeschool. personally i am very much in favor of the public school system, that was a blast for me, but I doubt that any parent (except a few pathological cases) would ever try hard to make the worst decision for their children. What I wanted to point out is that our legislation regarding school is strict for a reason. Unfortunately.

Oh,Angelo, you didn't offend me at all, and I believe you raised valid points, which to me means you understand what having such a great opportunity as living in another country is all about. If we were in Italy, or any other non-English speaking country, for a time spanning two or more school years, I'd have the children in the public schools so that they could become fluent in a second language. Then it would be worth supplementing their education with the things I mentioned. But one school year will not make them fluent, and it will put them well behind in all their compulsory studies.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Judith

Thank you, Deirdre, for your words of encouragement, and for recognizing that homeschooling can be the best answer for certain situations, like ours!

I have signed up for the HomeschoolingFamiliesinItaly board, as well as the italian version called "scuolafamiliare". (Sorry, I haven't gotten the hang of inserting URLs and such yet)

By the way, I found your website on a Google search for an Indian recipe over a year ago, well before I signed on to ExpatsinItaly, and just now realized you are one and the same! I love your website, and I especially enjoyed reading about both your own education at Woodstock and the ordeals you endured while trying to find the best education for your daughter.

All the best,

Judith

Sorry, Deirdre, I forgot the first "r" in your name in the post!

And, Alice, I really do appreciate your keeping us informed of Italian law and mores. That's more or less what I asked to discuss when I started this query.

I had a fantastic school experience growing up. If I could give that to my children I would, but I can't. They are getting a different kind of education from what I received, but in some ways their experience is richer, more profound, because of our constant travelling. They are forced to be flexible, resilient, and adaptable at a very early age. They are truly becoming global citizens, and they do not suffer from a parochial, narrow view of the world, like so many of the children in our small town.

Anyway, I've got to get the kids to horseback riding.

Ciao tutti!

Judith