quote:

Originally posted by Bill 2:
Five is nothing- John D Rockefeller was breastfeeding in his 80s.

OK I'll bite, where is the reference for that one. In his 80's, now there were times when my wife's breasts were about to burst in the middle of the night and the babies were sleeping, but I'm not admitting anything.

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there were times when my wife's breasts were about to burst in the middle of the night and the babies were sleeping, but I'm not admitting anything.

John?

There are increasingly more and more long term nursers as awareness grows regarding the health benefits of allowing a child to stop nursing naturally. The baby teeth were traditionally called "milk teeth." Anthropologically it appears human babies in ancient times probably nursed until about age 7 unless another child came first. There is a symbiotic relationship between breast milk and the developing immune system of a child. As the antibodies are present in the child, they disappear from the breast milk. That relationship continues until the point the child begins to loose those "milk teeth," also an indication that a certain level of development is complete. Once a child becomes a toddler the amount of nursing decreases significantly, usually once a day just before sleep or if there is a need for comfort. In an older child it may be every other day or so. Ultimately the weaning process is more that the child forgets to nurse for days at a time, until the process is complete. Our pediatrician always said she was the healthiest child in his practice, then in the next breath would ask when we planned to stop nursing. Unfortunately awareness of the benefits of long-term breast feeding are not widely known or not culturally supported. We have, fortunately, been part of more alternative world that judges of benefits and lets go of preconceived ideas of what nursing should look like. I found both my community in America and my community in Italy very supportive. My, now 6 year old, is extremely well adjusted and quite happy, going back and forth between Italy and Los Angeles!
A presto

quote:

Originally posted by B. Pool:
There are increasingly more and more long term nursers as awareness grows regarding the health benefits of allowing a child to stop nursing naturally. The baby teeth were traditionally called "milk teeth." Anthropologically it appears human babies in ancient times probably nursed until about age 7 unless another child came first. There is a symbiotic relationship between breast milk and the developing immune system of a child. As the antibodies are present in the child, they disappear from the breast milk. That relationship continues until the point the child begins to loose those "milk teeth," also an indication that a certain level of development is complete. Once a child becomes a toddler the amount of nursing decreases significantly, usually once a day just before sleep or if there is a need for comfort. In an older child it may be every other day or so. Ultimately the weaning process is more that the child forgets to nurse for days at a time, until the process is complete. Our pediatrician always said she was the healthiest child in his practice, then in the next breath would ask when we planned to stop nursing. Unfortunately awareness of the benefits of long-term breast feeding are not widely known or not culturally supported. We have, fortunately, been part of more alternative world that judges of benefits and lets go of preconceived ideas of what nursing should look like. I found both my community in America and my community in Italy very supportive. My, now 6 year old, is extremely well adjusted and quite happy, going back and forth between Italy and Los Angeles!
A presto

http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/sustained.html

Don't let the USA's ideas about breastfeeding scare you. The rest of the world knows how important and beneficial nursing is. America poo-pooed breastfeeding so all the formula companies could make money! It was a concerted effort! Don't worry and have fun. ENJOY nursing. I was sad when that chapter ended.

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Don't let the USA's ideas about breastfeeding scare you. The rest of the world knows how important and beneficial nursing is. America poo-pooed breastfeeding so all the formula companies could make money!

Maybe where YOU come from in the U.S., but NOT where I come from ! We welcome, honor, and cherish the breastfeeding mother here- even the one breastfeeding in public.

Amen to that! I was encouraged to breastfeed--not that I needed it, I was already convinced--given advice, etc, and successfully nursed my daughter for 9 months. She was born in the US, to put that in context.

What surprised me was when I got back to Italy, other young (Italian) mothers kept saying oh, they'd love to but didn't have any milk. Huh? Well, if you don't keep it up, the wells can run dry, it's true, but all it takes is starting back up again and you're rockin'. I suspect these mothers wanted to get their figures back in a hurry so axed the notion of even trying.

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I suspect these mothers wanted to get their figures back in a hurry so axed the notion of even trying.

As far as I understand it breastfeeding helps a woman get her figure back, contracts the uterus in the first phases. One of my daughters with twins is 35 pounds lighter than she was before getting pregnant. And that's only after 8 months. She looks great. She is quite tall and was a little overweight before getting pregnant.

That was my understanding, and I got my waistline back pretty quickly, but the gals over here thought otherwise...go figure! It was no doubt an excuse and Italian women just found the whole thiing a load of bother.

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Originally posted by filomena:
What surprised me was when I got back to Italy, other young (Italian) mothers kept saying oh, they'd love to but didn't have any milk. Huh?

Actually, for some women it's just not possible to breastfeed in a satisfatory way. My granny ran dry when my mom was 3 months old. At the time they were extremely poor, living in a squat on the wage my grandfather earned working as a (short range) immigrant to Milano in the railway recotruction, so my granny would have rather kept breastfeeding, since her milk was 100% free, but she just ran out. My mother, differen situation and age, did the same, after almost starving me with her efforst to feed me on milk that just wasn't there Well, I survived, but the very first months werent all that plentyful for me

In my childbirth class last week they told us that not having milk only happens to 1-2% of women. Sounds like your grandmother and mother were in that small group, unfortunately.

All of my neighbors who have had children have talked about how their mothers didn't have milk or it dried up. I printed out a bunch of stuff from La Leche League in Italian for them. My closest neighbor, a doctor, really got excited and followed my advice and all was perfect. She BF for 3 years!

We have more information now and that is a big help. Basically, if a woman feels that she does not have enough milk, I recommend a nursing day or two where both mom and babe stay in bed all day and night, skin to skin with the baby eating as often as possible. Also in the old days, docs would say only to feed every 3 or 4 hours and this caused problems with milk supply. Feeding on demand gets your body working on the baby's schedule.

Also, do not weigh before and after every feeding. It is just a way for the farmacie to make money. If your baby wets at least 5 diapers per day, he is getting enough milk.

Stay away from bottles and other liquids. Loads want to give camomilla to babies. If you have to for some reason, do so with a spoon not a bottle for the first 6 weeks.

Drink a glass of water EVERY time the baby eats. Drink 1 beer per day. Stay away from high allergenic foods (strawberries, shellfish, peanuts)cut down on garlic, beans onions, etc. Eat lots of iron (horsemeat is the best) and most importantly, ENJOY!

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Drink 1 beer per day.

At last, something good on the pregnancy threads!

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Originally posted by Cristina:
Drink 1 beer per day.

Oooh, some advice I'll have no problems taking!

I was watching SOS Tata the other day (I know! ) and the mother was "still" breastfeeding her 15 month old and 3 year old. The tata saw this as a huge problem (she was shocked!) and found a way to wean them immediately. I thought it was a bit weird. They were only doing it once a day at night - that seems ok to me so long as it's ok with the mum.

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Originally posted by Ramona:
In my childbirth class last week they told us that not having milk only happens to 1-2% of women. Sounds like your grandmother and mother were in that small group, unfortunately.

Probably. And they both did put out an effort to breastfeed. My mom in partcular surrendered only when I kept shirinking and shrinking...

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Originally posted by Alice Twain:

quote:

Originally posted by Ramona:
In my childbirth class last week they told us that not having milk only happens to 1-2% of women. Sounds like your grandmother and mother were in that small group, unfortunately.

Probably. And they both did put out an effort to breastfeed. My mom in partcular surrendered only when I kept shirinking and shrinking...

I wonder if your grandmother had problems because of the poor diet you mentioned.

Yes, Berkeley is NOT the rest of the USA. And, despite the fact that it is well known here and around the world that nursing is best for the baby AND mother, what I meant by the overarching ideas about breastfeeding in the USA relate more to the following: 6 months is more than enough; don't do it in public; if you are sore after two days, just give up; I never have enough milk; my baby just wouldn't latch on right so I HAD to stop; do it, but cover everything up like you are wearing a burka. Etc. It is kind of like everyone intellectually knows that smoking is horrible for you but will think up every excuse/reason they personally couldn't stop. I have never heard of one person outside my midwife and doula and like-minded friends on this issue who encouraged any mother to breastfeed past 12 months. I have lived in many places in the USA and both of my children were born in California. I did not circumsize my son and he was in the "norm" in california. Here heis WAY in the minority. Publicly people like to act like they really understand things, but they themselves would not personally follow the guidelines.

Re: beer--yes! Any whole grain helps. Water. Sleep and food. It takes 500+ calories per day to make milk, which is why many women get their figures back quickly when they breastfeed. Women who immediately start dieting do not make enough milk. ALSO, very important, the more you nurse, the more milk you make. It stimulates the production, so women who only want to breastfeed during the day and maybe not at night will dramatically slow down their production.

I honor the women who breastfeed but I also do not subscribe to put down women who do not. Everyone makes a decision with whatever information they have at the time. Would I love everyone to breastfeed? YES! But sometimes it isn't possible, sometimes people choose not to. Their choice; just like having a baby in the first place.

AWWWWWWWWWWW, I miss those moments when the babies look up at you with those great big eyes and move their feet together and grab you with their hands, as if to say, "MAN, this stuff is so good!"

And, just for the record, I ate tons of allergenic stuff when I was both pregnant and nursing and my kids are fine. I think if one is prone to allergies, it is a good idea to stay away, but otherwise, go for it. Since I am a vegeatarian I relied heavily on nuts and peanut butter and cheese and eggs for protein. Plus, I LOVE all the fruits. So it is just a matter of what each person is comfortable with.

happy lactating!

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Originally posted by jhelm:
I wonder if your grandmother had problems because of the poor diet you mentioned.

That could have been a cause, but at the same time, the fact that also my mom had almost no milk (she did produce a little, but insufficient to feed me) may also indicate some familiarity. One thing worth noticing is that both my mom and me had food issues as children. We ate very little, as though the lack of maternal breastfeeding ruined our early relationship with food. We made up for this later, though! ^__=

I wonder if the lack of milk might also have been a function of the process of latching on. Sometimes the way the baby latches on does not allow for maximum milk flow. A few days of improper latch-on could result in a decrease in milk in the mother. Many mothers think they have insufficient milk supply but the problem is correctable with intervention from a good lactation consultant. I have a friend who had successfully nursed her first child but the second baby wasn't gaining weight. She was fortunate to have a good lactation consultant who was able to help. My friend ended up having to use a supplemental contraption (a kind of gravity fed pump that was attatched next to her nipple (filled with breast milk) for about 2 months. When this baby nursed he got what he was able to generate from nursing, with a supplemental amount from the feeding system she had pumped between feedings. This both kept her milk supply up and also allowed him to develop into a stronger nurser (his muscle tone was not sufficient at birth). It was a big effort for the mom at first but worked out well for both she and the baby ultimately.

I'll second the "Happy lactating!"

Ciao for now,
Betsy

Julienini: I do agree with you that women who chose not to breastfeed, or try and give up, should not be shunned or looked at like "lesser than" mothers who don't care about their babies. It felt natural for me at the beginning but it was painful after about 2 weeks and sometimes I was begging in my mind for my son not to get hungry! I think the most important message for a new moms and dads is: just be who you are and don't worry about being "perfect"- whatever that means. A baby will cry until you figure out what they want.
FYI: I could NOT breastfeed my son in public for the first 3 months since he didn't want anything covering his face and I didn't feel comfortable exposing my breast to the world- PERSONAL choice and PERSONAL comfort level. It was difficult to organize, not to mention stressful, and I envy those women who can pull it off!

Jenna--I am glad you persevered. I remember the pain. Then, with the second I got thrush...ugh. I WISH I had lived in Berkeley when I was pregnant. I was in So Cal and, believe it or not, I had a hard time trying to find a birthing center/midwife. Imagine giving birth in Dallas. If you don't have a scheduled c-section here, you are a freak! (OK, I am exaggerating, but not too much.)

I have breastfed all three of mine and still am my youngest who is 20 months. In the UK with my other 2 and with my third here in Italy I have never had an issue with breastfeeding in public.
It is true as previous posts have mentioned that only a small percentage of women genuinely cannot breast feed. Many give up due to lack of good advice-there is much advice giving but I fear much of it lacking a strong evidence based background. It is also very unlikely that you would not have enough milk which is commonly given as a reason for giving up.
Unfortunately many judge the feeding behaviour of a breastfed baby against that of a formula fed baby which will be completely different.
Breastfeeders do not expect baby to go 4 hrs between feeds, in the early days be pleased if its 2 hours.
My little one is such a healthy little girl, thank goodness and I put that down to breastfeeding, its the most natural rewarding experience don't let others put you off.