Well, I've just had my first prenatal visit, and my OBGYN gave me some really strange advice about- okay everyone, take a guess- that's right, eating! Fortunately, he didn't put me on a starvation diet, (which my two sisters-in-law warned me he would do,) but he told me that to avoid toxoplasmosis, I can only eat meat cooked in liquids for long periods of time. So anything boiled, stewed, or cooked in a pressure cooker is fine. Anything roasted, sauteed, or fried is out because those methods, according to him, don't actually cook the meat, they just dry it out. That sounds like bulls**t to me, and it goes against everything (I think) I know about cooking, but I'm wondering if anyone else has heard of this?

For various reasons that I don't want to get into here, because it's too upsetting, and that's not good for the baby, changing doctors is not a viable option. DH tends to believe that whatever a doctor says is gospel, but last night, disappointed that he wouldn't be able to eat hamburgers for the next several months, he asked me, really, what's the difference between a hamburger and a meatball? I told him all about convection and conduction, and what I really thought about the doctor's advice. In the end he gave me a somewhat weak "I trust the choices you make," but I suppose that's a start.

What bugs me about this is that even before meeting with the doctor, even before I became pregnant, I was being very careful about what I ate. I think I make good choices, and I really don't need an alarmist making me second guess myself.

I'm sorry this is long! And yes, despite my annoyance with my doctor, I am extremely happy!

Why is changing doctors not an option?

Edit: If it's personal, I don't need to know. It's just that if your's and your baby's health is important and you should have a doctor that you agree with. That is, don't stay with one doctor because you're afraid of upsetting someone.

Wow! You're having a baby! Congratulations!!!
When is the little one due?

I know very little about diet during pregnancy, so I'll leave that to those who've been there.

I'm wondering if you *did* change doctors, would it be much different - emphasis on diet seems to be the norm here. IIRC people have even been told to loose weight whilst pregnant which to me doesn't seem quite right - though as said before I'm no expert.

quote:

Originally posted by BrianB:
Why is changing doctors not an option?

Edit: If it's personal, I don't need to know. It's just that if your's and your baby's health is important and you should have a doctor that you agree with. That is, don't stay with one doctor because you're afraid of upsetting someone.

It's a long, personal (and actually quite boring) story. I will say that this doctor, despite his crazy meat ideas, is well-respected and very much in demand here. I'm actually not worried about the baby at all. I just worry that he's very unsympathetic to pregnant women, asking them to take unnecessary precautions.

quote:

Originally posted by Delina:
Wow! You're having a baby! Congratulations!!!
When is the little one due?

I know very little about diet during pregnancy, so I'll leave that to those who've been there.

Thanks, Delina! In the due date lottery, we've come up with the biggest day of them all: New Years! I hope that our little guy chooses to come out a different day. Can you imagine how understaffed clinics and hospitals must be on that day? Fortunately, the majority of babies are not born on their due dates!

HI Professoressa

I had a baby last year, and went through the same rigmarole with the obs here. I am a dietitian and the diet advice they give out here is different to the things we would say.I think most countries have varying advice, Italy seems to be similar to France but v diff to anglo saxon countries. FOr example, they were v concerned about 'weight gain' (had to be in a v narrow range defined by them), whereas not concerned at all about things like alcohol or coffee or unpasteurised cheeses. Not much of the advice was practical or tailored to the individual at all either.

ANyway, UK/ NZ (and probably US) advice is to eat cooked meats (no mention of method) and avoid things like salami, ham etc (interestingly i also was never told not to eat these in italy).

Incidentally, i did NOT want the obstetrician who was the 'most popular' here as I knew he was some old guy who had old fashioned ideas and self importance and was in love with c-sections. Luckily for me my husband is a dr and knew a wide variety of people for me to choose from. I chose the youngest with the most practical ideas who also believed in normal births. I already knew a lot about pregnancy but am in general a practical person. Any advice I got from the drs here i also checked against websites from US/ UK sources to see what the differences were, then made my own educated and personal decisions based on the combination of those two (italy vs other).

Anyway, congratulations on your pregnancy. If you want to PM me, my email should be in my profile.

If you do have to stay with him I would say "si si, dottore" and then go eat a burger. I have a couple pregnant friends and one just had a burger with me the other day! Everyone survived!

You're pregnant?!
THAT'S FANTABULOUS! CONGRATULATIONS!
Did I miss the official announcement somewhere? I read your blog religiously, so if you posted about it, I'm sorry to say that I don't remember reading about it. BUT, you couldn't have because this is something I would definitely remember! OK, I am now blabbering, so I will stop... that's your job as new mom to be. *shriek* I am so thrilled for you! Can you tell?!

All my (as I am only really just getting to know you) feelings are totally expressed in a non-stalker-ish way. You know that right? lol

Congrats again! I hope you keep us posted.

When our mums had us they ate anything - my M-I-L (UK) was told "raw" milk was good for you!! See how things have changed?

In the 9 years between my two pregnancies attitudes to alcohol have tightened up - with my son a few glasses a week were okay, with my daughter, now 3, one maybe, now none!

On a serious note about listeria though prepared salads are known to carry it, i.e. coleslaw, russian and anything hanging around in a salad bar of any kind. As for burgers - walking past Mac's and Burger King was always enough to put me off for 9 months to life anyway !

Congratulations to you both and I hope your bundles bring you as much pleasure as mine continue to do - most of the time !

quote:

In the 9 years between my two pregnancies attitudes to alcohol have tightened up - with my son a few glasses a week were okay, with my daughter, now 3, one maybe, now none!

I was talking to my Mum about this the other day. She was saying how years ago pregnant women were encouraged to drink a pint of Guinness because of the iron (?) intake.

Knowledge is the key. HEREare some facts on toxoplasmosis. Seems your doctor is not completely off base. You can fry meat but perhaps by the time it's cooked well enough you wouldn't want to eat it. You could also be tested for it and if already exposed don't need to worry about it.

Alcohol has been proven to cause problems even in the smallest amounts so it's a real no no except maybe in the last month, when the baby is pretty much fully developed. It's kind of a Russian roulett, you could drink and probably nothing happens, but drink at the just the wrong moment and brain damage can happen. Not worth the risk.

Congratulations!!
Have you considered instead of changing doctors, just going to someone a second opinion? It might give you some peace of mind the next time you feel the need to partake in a burger or two.
Or maybe second opinions are an American thing - is this a no-no in Italy?

quote:

Originally posted by jhelm:
Alcohol has been proven to cause problems even in the smallest amounts so it's a real no no except maybe in the last month, when the baby is pretty much fully developed. It's kind of a Russian roulett, you could drink and probably nothing happens, but drink at the just the wrong moment and brain damage can happen. Not worth the risk.

There was an article in The Times this week saying the UK is to go the same way as the US in its alcohol reccomendations for pregnant women i.e. nil alcohol while pregnant. This is coming from the government. However when asked about this they agreed that foetal damage has only ever been shown when women binge or are already heavy drinkers, but this is the women they are aiming at with this information, not women who drink one glass of wine a couple of times a week while pregnant. Interestingly the Royal College of OB/GYN is not backing this stance and is continuing to state moderate drinking is okay.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article1837653.ece

This is the article if you are interested.

Hi everyone, thanks so much for your congratulations and advice!

Here's the deal with the doctor: He's not a monster, though if I fixate on long enough that's what he starts to look like in my mind. In the U.S., I would not go to a doctor like this one, because I can't stand arrogance and paternalism. But this one is my husband's family's ob, and while I could exercise my right to choose another, there'd be fallout. Given that I am not worried at all about the baby if I stay with him, I don't think that dealing with repercussions of choosing someone else would be worth it. (Of course, I reserve the right to change my mind if I begin to feel that I or the baby are in danger.) Even if I were to change doctors, we can't afford to go to someone else privately, and I really don't feel comfortable going through the public health service in this region. So at least for now, this is the best choice I can make.

Professoressavanessa, I was hoping you would read this because I know that you are a nutritionist. The U.S. recommendations that I began following even before I saw my doctor are pretty much the same as the UK and NZ advice: meat cooked well, regardless of technique. The recommended temperature is usually between 160-165 degrees Fahrenheit. No deli meats, unless reheated to the point of steaming, and no unpasteurized dairy. Fruit and veg thoroughly washed. I'm relieved to hear that this is the advice you've heard too!

Cobalt, that was actually my secret plan! Don't worry, my next hamburger, (very well cooked and certainly not pink inside ) is not far off!

Giulia, I haven't yet mentioned it on the blog. I was going to write about it yesterday, but then I just wasn't ready. Maybe today or early next week.

Alyson, that's exactly what I've been saying to dh. Now, I don't see the point in eating anything risky just because our moms did it and we all turned out fine, but I don't see the point in exaggeration either.

Jhelm, thanks for that link. When talking this over with dh, one of the things that came to mind was the idea that the dr. is worried that many people may not be careful enough when they cook. It's easy to know that a pot roast that you've braised for 2 and half hours is really cooked, but the cutlet in the pan or steak on the grill? I wonder if he makes this recommendations because it's easier than making sure that everyone will be careful when they fry or roast their food. I am extremely careful in the kitchen, and in fact, my greatest failing in cooking is that I have the tendency to overcook everything out of fear of bacteria. I've been this way for years. Even so, I intend to buy a meat thermometer just to be sure!

Beth M, I do wish I could change doctors, but can't. I don't think second opinions regarding diet would be much different here, anyway. I'll get my second opinions instead from reputable websites like the Mayo Clinic, and just ignore the more unnecessary advice my doctor gives me.

Again, thanks everyone for your comments!

Professoressa, forgot to say congratulations, I love babies, five kids of my own, and two of my grown daugthers are pregnant at the same time, one with twins.

About alcohol, the controversy goes on, I just can't get out of my head a video I saw a few times while visting Luisa every night for the five weeks she had to stay in the Kaiser Hospital in San Diego to prevent losing our Julia. In that video they showed how a mere microscopic amount of alcohol at just the right moment could cause brain damage. So as I said drink a little now and then probably nothing happens, but does any Mom want to take that risk and never know if her baby was damaged because of it.

Jhelm, I actually agree with you about completely avoiding alcohol. Still, I think that there is some conflicting info out there about drinking it in small quantities. There are doctors for whom it's not a problem, including mine. I think that most women are intelligent enough to make well informed decisions for themselves. Some will follow the most restrictive advice, like eating only boiled meat for example, and some will avoid only the risks that have been well-established. I think that for as long as there is difference in opinion on certain issues, this is only natural. I just prefer not to question other women's ways of doing things. (It's that aversion to paternalism thing. )

Speaking to a long table of Italian women the other day, it came out that ALL of them had drunk wine throughout their pregnancies. When asked if that didn't hurt the baby, the response was a unanimous 'Ma va! Not if you don't get drunk!' From what I've read, I personally would probably not touch alcohol in the first months of pregnancy but I think that if you drink a sip here and there on a full stomach in the later months of your pregnancy, it should cause no harm to the baby. It's all about using common sense and listening to your body. Just think that if baby is running late, aren't you going to want to do a (small) brindisi on New Year's Eve anyway? I would.
Michelle

quote:

Originally posted by mschoen:
Just think that if baby is running late, aren't you going to want to do a (small) brindisi on New Year's Eve anyway? I would.
Michelle

At that point in the pregnancy, I guess just a little bit of champagne wouldn't hurt!

I genuinely think this is a cultural thing. The US is very anti-drinking in pregnancy, Europe isn't. Yes babies can be damaged by heavy drinking but I think to say a tiny drop will do damage is irresponsible of the medical profession in the US. Why do I say this? How many women drink in the first few weeks after conception without knowing they are pregnant? How much guilt is then felt by these women if their babies are damaged in any way?

Yes, I carried on having a drink with both my kids. If they are brain damaged then all I can say is they should have been geniuses!

Because of my problems - I had 3 miscarriages between my kids - there is also the possibility that my eldest, my son, may not have been here without the occasional glass of red wine. I had to take blood thinners throughout my pregnancy with my daughter as the doctors believed my mis's were caused by microscopic clots. By my 3rd miscarriage I had stopped doing anything that could possibly harm my baby including drinking alcohol and moving around - I lost my baby at 20 weeks.

With my daughter I carried on regardless as I realised no matter what I did she would arrive or not. With the help of the drugs I injected every day and the occasional glass of wine - when I was past the sicky stage - she arrived safely and is now a bouncing 3 year old.

At the end you do what you feel is right for you. But like all the controversial aspects of parenting no-one should be made to feel bad because of it. Unless it's smoking of course ! But then I'm just anti-smoking anyway!

quote:

Yes babies can be damaged by heavy drinking but I think to say a tiny drop will do damage is irresponsible of the medical profession in the US.

I am sure that this has to do with liability issues and the cost of malpractice insurance for OBGYNs in the US. There are many areas of the country that have a shortage of Doctors in certain specialties due to the cost of insurance.

I've been pg twice but sadly m/c both times so never go as far along as to go to a doctor. I do know that I would not take the advice of an Italian one, having seen what my SIL is going through, even now AFTER she has given birth. Whilst pg, she drank a little wine and just avoided the usual suspects - ie uncooked meat and fish (though I do ask myself what Japanese women would do - avoid sushi?).

However, she has been put on a very odd diet after the baby - has to avoid lots of veg, strawberries and all sorts of things with the excuse that it is bad for the baby (she is breastfeeding). Checking with friends in the UK who breastfed, they weren't given any of this advice.

I would just go along with what you feel OK doing. Avoid eating stuff that common sense tells you is not good - ie unpasteurised dairy products, raw meat, but other than that, stick to normal eating habits. Personally I have seen too many very thin pg women in Italy - and they only get thinner after the baby is born. My SIL, one month after giving birth, is a stick insect. How can that be healthy?

BTW Alyson - I too had to take aspirin during pg to thin the blood, so I think a bit of red wine is a good idea!