quote:

Originally posted by Alessandra Federici:

Instead of worring about this world, I started to think that maybe my kids will be the ones that woill change something. Curing a disease, Discovering that particular gene. Or just by their example people could realize how much love in this world is to share...maybe I am dreaming, but I am a positive person and I refuse to become negataive about my kids.

I love that! Well said.

quote:

If you wait to be echonomically safe, you can wait forever! JUMP!!

But gee, if you don't have a job and are living on such limited savings, how could one not be scared to take a jump?! I understand not waiting for the ideal economic conditions - for what is that exactly, but to have a child while unemployed and on a limited savings I feel would be quite risky (and the other person maybe not working or working a very low wage job).
For sure in these conditions it might be viewed as nothing short of crazy (although many people had babies back in the day with no jobs at all - but those were different times of course!)

I assume you were not offering that advice to the ones unemployed and below poverty level.
But still, good advice for the ones fairly economically stable (i.e have a job, not in debt and without major bills) - i.e. no fear.

quote:

Originally posted by kellytree:

Cloth diapers - I did for 2 children. Im not sure how much of a money saver they are though.

Hmm, I'd say, not so much a money saver, but for sure much better for the environment - if that's your sort of thing.

HOw an hospital works, how are the various departments organized, dipends from who works there. My locl hospital has basically a very bad reputation for everything except the Obgin clinic, which is one of the very first in Italy to ever have had a "camera dolce" (the type described by Cristina). My last info is from a few years back (but a friend of mine's wife is going to have her child there at the end of the month), and at the time they were good and efficient. The point is that at the time there was a bright and innovative "primario" who decided to use the budget he had to implement some innovations, like the fact that the mothers could have their children in their room if they wanted (children were kept in the nuresery if the mother was going to be visited or if she asked it to get some rest, so it was basically empty all the time: I remeber my grandfather being there and I taking short breaks to visit the babies, and in the nrsery there were rows of empty cradles, only one or two children occupying them), the new camera dolce was being built, etc. If that primario went to another hospital, than the new reonsible may decide to go back to the old, traditional ways: higly medicalized treatment of the mother, no rooming in, no camera dolce... Don't just trust the nearest hospital. You can trust basically any hospital to give you decent care in case of need, but as others said giving birth is not (or rather, should not be) an emergency situation. its something planned well ahead and a normal passage in a person's life (we all go through it at least once! ), so take care to pick the right place. Visit several hospitals in your area, talk to the resposibles and, if possible, tour the hospital. Pick carefully, making sure that the place is right, but don't concentrate on the frills. Private places may spend a lot of money in providing you a confortable single room with TV and private everything, but these are all money that are not spent in granting you the best care available.
One thing to keep in mind is that in most of Italy there is a tendency to do a lot of C sections: four ore five times as many as in the rest of the EU (in average). This is especially true when it comes to private hospitals. Why? Because C sections are listed amonghst the surgical treatments and therefore pay more.

For those considering university hospitals just a note of caution. I went to just have a look at one in the next city when I was 41 weeks and due any day. The 27 year old dr tried to admit me for a c-section and told me I was endangering my baby's life, i had to sign myself out of there...brrrr a very close call, I wouldn't set foot in one again!

well...we're having a baby

can't say that last night was a breeze. lots of emotions from both of us. good and bad.

thank all of y'all (as we say in louisiana) for the wonderful advice. as of last night, he still has some major doubts about moving to italy now. but reading your thoughts and experiences, if feel like it might actually work to our advantage.

my only major concern it not having family around. I always pictured my mom coming over to help me out for the day, or meeting up with aunts to have tea.

how have you dealt with living away from close family and friends? has not having the extra pairs of hands made it more difficult?

First off, congratulations!

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how have you dealt with living away from close family and friends? has not having the extra pairs of hands made it more difficult?

We have our family and friends quite close (at least in the same country) but have never been able to rely on them for help. You manage without, but sure it must be easier to have people around.

quote:

to have a child while unemployed and on a limited savings I feel would be quite risky (and the other person maybe not working or working a very low wage job).
For sure in these conditions it might be viewed as nothing short of crazy (although many people had babies back in the day with no jobs at all - but those were different times of course!)

Well... call me crazy, but that's what we did. It might not be the ideal situation but it works anyway because it has to work.

Em, you will be just fine and sooner than you can fathom you will have a beautiful little baby in your arms, and in that moment all your doubts and fears will disappear and it will all be worth it. If you want you can e-mail me. If nothing else I'm a good example of how to make the seemingly impossible possible!

well, congratulations!
I don't have family here either but when Skye was born my mum came to stay for the first 4 weeks, which was a great help. Sometimes its hard because it seems that most of the local mums have vast families all clamouring to look after the baby. I often see new mums going shopping , to the gym, out in the evenings with no baby in sight...left with mum or sis at home.But I just learnt to manage.I have a few very kind friends who I would sometimes offload the baby on ,so I could grab an hour at the hairdressers or an occasional evening out.
If I was ever in doubt about something I would check on the internet, there's some good baby sites around. My mum told me that the first 3 months would be the hardest.But the time passes so fast in a blur of nappies, poop, milk and interrupted sleep, that suddenly it feels completely normal to be doing those things.THen your baby smiles at you and your heart melts.....then before you know it you've got a walking ,talking bundle of mischief that you both are completely besotted with!
good luck to you all!

I want to add my 2 cents in too, especially now that I can see clearly what I liked and disliked about my experience here.

Having Isabella here (in Sicily where everyone says things are worse) was good to excellent from the medical care point of view. I chose a public/university hospital, Istituto Materno Infantile which is separate from the University hospital (Policlinico di Palermo) and had both ICU and NICu on site. I am over 40 and this is my first pregnancy, so I wanted to be sure to be safe. My doctor was the chief of the dept (primario), but I got seen at times by whomever was there when the primario was busy (which happened a bit). This was good financially anyway as other Drs. would have you at their office and make you pay a whole bunch for a private visit (which happens a lot). If I had to re-do this, maybe I would have gone to a non-primario, but as it turns out because I was his patient everyone knew who I was and bent over backwards to help. As it turned out, I did necessitate an emergency C-section as the baby had the umbilical cord wrapped around her neck (otherwise I would have delivered normally in less than 3 hours!). My doctor was not present that day, but the doctor on call there knew me already and so they literally whisked me away and before I knew it I was waking up and Isabella was fine. There was no need for intensive care for her, and I was OK too. No 5 hour wait, highly trained and competent staff, who recently were in the paper as having saved a mom and baby in less-than-ideal conditions. Good stuff.

Which brings me to the other part of this, what I did not like so much. Again, the medical care was excellent, but the doctors were very impersonal (bordering on unfriendly) and they spend precious little time coddling you. That is what I missed, the step-by-step explanation during visits, the conforting and generally better bedside manners to which I was accustomed in the U.S. Also, pain management is not something everyone is trained in, so they expect the patient to ask for painkillers if they need them, as opposed to giving some before or as the need arises. Which meant I braved an entire day of post C-section pain before clueing in that I needed to ask. Must be the Catholic mentality that pain purifies. If I had known in advance that they were like this, I would have known to brace myself and maybe even accepted it. But as it was, it was unexpected and I kept trying to get something that I was used to without understanding the system well and that made me a bit unhappy.

Ultimately I don't regret my public hospital choice at all, especially when I hear how private ones are full of incompetent boobs, despite the friendlier aspect and hotel-like surroundings.

Do you have family or friends here? Someone who just had babies (aside from us)? Depending on location your experience may vary, so my suggestion would be to understand the local system where you will be (which you may already be doing) and to be prepared. Also be flexible, not just about what is available, but also about what your and the baby's needs will be. I had to stop brastfeeding and I did with a bit of a fight, but despite my worries (that it could be bad for the baby, that it was going to cost us a fortune, etc.) it worked out fine. Formula can be had cheaply here, and food safety is very good. I know nothing beats breastmilk, but my situation was such that I had to give it up, but Isa is now 8.5 kgs (not 6 months yet) and grows quite well.

Anyway, best of luck to you!

Edited to add: I did not see your latest post due to some electrical work being done (hence no internet). Congratulations! But I would like to add that it is very stressful to move to a different country while pregnant (I did it and I have family here but it was no picnic), and I don't want to say to do one thing or another, b ut make sure you know all the "variables" well. Maybe having tea w/your aunts is worth postponing the move a few months?

quote:

Originally posted by Annika:

quote:

to have a child while unemployed and on a limited savings I feel would be quite risky (and the other person maybe not working or working a very low wage job).
For sure in these conditions it might be viewed as nothing short of crazy (although many people had babies back in the day with no jobs at all - but those were different times of course!)

Well... call me crazy, but that's what we did. It might not be the ideal situation but it works anyway because it has to work.

Thanks for that input Annika.
At least there's some hope that all dreams and passions of child production do not have to be squashed due simply to lack of funds.
I know it's not the wisest, but at least there's comfort to know it's possible of course - and without the baby suffering.

Thanks.

Congratulations I'm so happy for you!

On the family thing, I think it will be hard for you but you'll cope. We have Stef's family but my mum is thousands of miles away so I don't really have that close emotional support and sometimes it hurts! But you just get on with it and you're going to have so much fun!
Becoming a mother is an amazing, wonderful experience.

...and don't worry too much about 'daddy'. Stef never wanted children & we went through lots of grief and heartache when we found out I was pregnant.
But you know what - right now I can hear him in the other room, he's singing 'if you're happy and you know it' to Lila and she is giggling away with delight. It's true love!

I wish I would have seen this thread a long time ago!

Cristina-I loved your pregnancy and birth story!

I am about to give birth to a baby girl here in the States, and all I can say is that my experience here has been positive. This makes me think to the future though, for when we make our move to Italy and decide to have another child, I will most likely be delivering there! I am a little nervous. Peppe (hubby) doesn't understand why. I think he will, though, once we start going through another pregnancy in Italy. Because he too will have only had an "American" pregnancy experience with rooming in, preparation courses, birthing balls, private rooms with hubby staying over, etc. and all the works that you get here in the States. So I have a feeling he too will go through some sort of "pregnancy" culture shock. This comforts me because I know that he will understand my fears when it comes to that point!

I have had an American woman (who lived in Rome 8 years and gave birth to her two children there.) recommend the clinic Villa Mafalda. She said that most Americans go there and they are very good. The insurance, ofcourse, is more expensive for that clinic though.

One thing I am very happy about though is that in Italy a pregnancy isn't treated like some sort of disease by insurance companies. I am soooo frustrated with our health system and payments. Don't get me wrong, I think we do have quite a good health system, BUT it is absolutely ridiculous how much we pay for insurance every month and then how much they make us pay after all that for giving birth! I am appalled and embarrassed when the bills come and I have to show them to my husband. I am scared about giving birth in Italy, but relieved that we will be provided for.

Cassi

Another thing (from a hopeful future mom)is that I have seen that it is not so hard to find a friend or two to come over and help out. As soon as I had mentioned to a friend of ours that we wanted children, she got so excited about the thought of helping out in any way possible. All of my family is back in the states, and most of my very good friends live in Ireland, so it was very good to hear that people are so eager to help out when ever you need it.

CONGRATS!!

quote:

Originally posted by Yael:

...and don't worry too much about 'daddy'. Stef never wanted children & we went through lots of grief and heartache when we found out I was pregnant.
But you know what - right now I can hear him in the other room, he's singing 'if you're happy and you know it' to Lila and she is giggling away with delight. It's true love!

Another awesome tidbit.

Just a very nice moment capture in time - you're at the computer reading/contributing to this thread, simultaneously a precious moment of parent/child occurring. Nice!

Tanti Auguri LoPorto! Health and happiness to all. And as Annika said, no matter what course you choose to go down, it will work - because it has to!

Like everyone else says - congratulations! The good thing about making big decisions is that, actually, they don't mean the closing of one door, because every step of our lives we are making choices in the path. But sometimes the paths interweave a bit futher down the track and you've just made a detour...

First came my Italian birth experience, and now my raising a child in Italy experience. Though my husband initiated getting pregnant after 4 years of avowing a childless existence, he freaked when reality hit. The pregnancy was difficult for me emotionally because I felt betrayed and abandoned. After the birth, I was pretty much alone. My husband works nights and sleeps late into the day so I had little help. I have no in-laws, and my mother was only able to be here to help me for the first three weeks. Through instinct and survival skills, I began what I later learned was "attachment parenting". I breastfed on demand, the baby slept with me in the bed, I carried him in a baby carrier almost constantly, and I responded to his cries immediately ( I later got Dr Sears' book and was relieved to see I was on the right track). I got a lot of sideways glances and full-out critism for this, but I was doing what worked for me. The pros of this situation were this: breastfeeding alowed me to take off and do what I wanted at a moments notice. I never wasted time with sterilizing bottles, mixing formula or assuring that I had proper refrigeration when out and abpout. Meals were available 24/7 and I never experienced any backlash for nursing in public. I got a lot of flack for co-sleeping, but let me tell you, I never had a sleepless night. If he woke in the night to feed, I popped him on the boob and neither of us had to fully wake. With a husband not available to help much, this saved my life. I live in a (AMER) 4th floor walk up and found using a stroller or carriage more trouble than it was worth and used a baby carrier. We went everywhere like this, and I barely altered my lifestyle. I was exhausted and harried at the beginning, but as I adapted, I was able to carry on pretty much as before only with a new appendage. Now, I was lucky because my baby is easy-going, but he learned from the start that his needs would be tended to immediately and so he was never in the habit of having to kick up a fuss to get his needs met. As he got older, and I had no babysitter, he would come out with me to bars, concerts, even films. He was always welcomed. That could never have happened in the States. Becuase I was alone with a baby or toddler, I met so many people. Yes, there were times when I longed not to be "attached", but they were much rarer than you might think. He's five now, and I still take him with me to a lot of places, but now that he has a mind and will of his own that he is more than willing to communicate, we negtiate these things. I can honestly say that though a child changed my life radically in emotional, spiritual, and practical ways, I adjusted so quickly to the practical ones I barely noticed them. As for the emotional and spritual ways: they'll never be the same and I wouldn't have it otherwise. (My we can be long-winded when it comes to our children!!!)

Is he sleeping in his own bed yet? My worry is that Lila will be in with me until she's 16!

Yael, my eldest moved to her own bed at around 3 but still comes to bed with us when she is not feeling well or when she just needs a little mommy time. Our youngest at first did not want to family bed and she also was not really great with the whole attachment parenting idea. This was a complete shock for me and personally, it really was the reason I decided never to have kids again. With Gianna it was so easy, like Amy I took her everywhere in her carrier, did everything on demand and never was stressed. My family did not come for either birth or to help and to be honest, even though my MIL would have been thrilled I did not want her there. They of course did not agree with my way of raising Gianna but they see that it worked. With Stella, life was awful. Maybe it was because I really had a hard time being mom to 2 children. I was stressed and had a pretty heavy bout with the baby blues. It didn'0t help that Stella did not sleep through the night until she was 2+. After little Gee who slept through the night from the time she was born (sure she woke to feed but since I was right in bed with her, I just had to roll over when I felt her starting to fuss and wake up and once she got milk, she went back into her deep sleep). Stella would wake at 1, stay awake until 3 go back to sleep for an hour then wake agian for 3 or 4 hours. She basically lived on 1 or 2 hour cat naps for the first 2 years.

Anyway, yes they do move out of your bed, just like they will stop breastfeeding before going off to college

Gosh, Cristina, that was tough.
With me it is been easier.

Matteo sytarted to sleep off 6 hours straight at 2 months, and when I was pregnant the second time everybody was warning me that with Francesca it wouold have been entirely different!
Well.. it was. Francesca started to sleep 7 hours straight 15 days after she got out of the hospital!
Still now they want to go to sleep at 8/9 and they wake us up at 7!! What a blessing!!
We have actually the possibility to have friends over and after taking both of them to sleep, all goes through till next morning.
They do still come in bed for a little munny/daddy time. And my mom still say that I am spoiling them, at which my answer is: I have spoiled dogs, cats, one horse and several birds...how can I not spoil my kids!!"
And they are not spoiled, at all, come on, how bad it is to have them in your bed at 6,30 AM and have a little time to cuddle and play before the whole wake/wash/breakfast and school process starts!
I must say that Marino is a great help - a huge surprise- always been. At the beginning I was so sure that he couldn't handle anything about children, but once he asked me -actually implored me- to let him stay with kids and...he was fantastic! I later understood that I was the obstacle beetween him and the kids, I was always in the middle, not trusting him at all.
You see, it is a process of learning. All of you, and if you do it with love, it works!

Trinacria, of course I don't advice anybody to make children at the verge of poverty, but...I did it pretty close -it was our worse echonomical year- and it worked out perfectly.

In Italy we say that "Children bring fortune and money" Probably it is related to the fact that a new birth in our old agricoltural land a new born meant that it would have been either 2 more arms to work the land or a new entry in the family -a husband for your daughter). I prefere to think that if you ahve a child and your lifestile was a little...crazy, you have to straighten it out, and make things work.

holy guacamole, batman...I feel so blessed to have so much input! thanks y'all!

everyone keeps mentioning which university or public hospital they used, and I can't seem to find one mentioned for our area. we will be living in Florence. does anyone have a personal recommendation for a hospital in Florence?

FYI things have cooled off a little, and it looks like DH is now ready to do what it takes to get to Italy! yay! if you pray, hit us up!

Honestly, I would drive out of the city 25 minutes up the highway to Poggibonsi. It is the BEST in all of Italy. If you need help with it I have doctors to recommend, can show you around the hospital, etc. You are so close it would be a shame to miss the experience. I even know one woman who lived in Rome but had her baby there. First contrax she hopped in the car and drove (well hubby drove) all the way (2+ hours) and was able to deliver with no problems. I also know people who have come and lived in the area for the last month of pregnancy just to give birth there.

wow...unfortunatley we will not have a car. guess we'd better make friends with someone who does...taxi'd probably be too expensive.

I know it'll work out. thanks for the suggestion christina. I may just take you up on your offer once we're there. my primary physician here is also my ob/gyn. she knows me very well, listens to my every concern. i am nervous about having to form a relationship with a new doctor, and to top it off, one who primarily speaks another language! I definitely want to research before I commit to someone.

what are some things to be aware of as far as differences in the American health system and the italian health system. here, I have a primary doctor, and in order to see a specialist, I have to get a referal from her, and giving birth...well I have no idea yet, but I know most of it will NOT be covered by my basic insurance. (I know italy is way more socialized when it come to healthcare)

As far as adults go, the doctor is free. there is some to pay to go to a specialist, it is the same as in the states (i think). I do know that emergency care and giving birth is also free (at least in most places).
Sorry I dont know too much.. I am sure others here can help you a lot more!