quote:

Originally posted by rtpm:
This is why school uniforms, like we have in Australia, are a good idea.

Actually I still think they ar a very bad idea: if I had to wear a uniform at school I would have become a really BIG pain in the neck for the school, constantly refusing to ear it. Not because I would have wanted to wear nicer clothes, just because I would have wanted to wear MY clothes (like old jeans, comfy sweaters often handknit by my grannies, etc.). I have an innate resistance towards any type of uniform! ye, I seem to notice that this kind of dressing up for school is particularly abundant in areas that didn't go through the whole 1968-1977 thing. I mean, up to 20 years ago in Pistoia it was still common for teachers to use the "lei" with students, in my school I used the "tu" with my teachers. The whole 1968 thing (which in Itlay continued for about a decade) was (also) about leaving formalities behind, trying to find out what things really meant. In my school we cared more about the substantial, we liked to have cultured and capable teachers, whom we resepected, while we basically didn't stand the lousy ones. We expressed our respect by paying attention to the good ones. Some teachers we couldn't stand because of their character, but if they were good we paid attention! Parents (and their hildren and the teachers as well) that didn't go through that revolutionary thing called 1968 think that respect towards the teachers is going to school all dressed up and using the "lei" with the teachers.

Well, I think you had to experience my school uniform experience to understand it. It wasn't about rigidly forcing kids to wear particular clothes but more about taking the competition about clothes away completely. What I see here in Italy amongst the kids I know is that the kids who can afford the "cool" sunglasses, jeans and ipods are the cool kids at school, the ones whose parents shop at second hand shops or wear hand me downs can never be cool. With the uniform back in Austrlaia we got away from all that and it was a good thing - especially in a school as multicultural (60 per cent of the kids at my high school were not born in Australia) as mine was. My best friend was Vietnamese-Australian and the one of 6 kids (parents both unemployed) and she was one of the coolest kids at school because of her personality not her money.

Speaking of clothes - can't wait to go back to the US in September (for a wedding) to stock up on stylish threads. Here in Italy it's soo expensive and bad quality unless you pay through the nose. Also I'm 5'10" and buxom and Italians are so short and non-buxom. It's a killer trying to find pants or shirts which fit.

What do you mean that Rome hospitals are "chaotic"? That scares me.

I have to add my voice in: Having uniforms didn't deter kids from anything except establishing rules about what made a "cool" combo uniform-wise. Especially the girls.

Believe me, the girl would compete to try to wear the shortest, tightest shirt they could get away with without getting a demerit. Same for shorts and skirts. And pants? Believe me, every girl was searching for a pair of pants that would conform the the color (blue or khaki) and material (no denim) yet fit snugly in all the right places.

Certain "cuts" were also coveted. For example we had to have shirts with collars, but lots of girls managed to find a shirt with a collar that plunged - great way to show off some cleavage (if you had any!).

I think there was also competition among the guys to find the baggiest pants they could get away with.

Kids will find a way to impose their rules on anything - even if you think you've taken away the option!

quote:

Originally posted by Tiffany:
I have to add my voice in: Having uniforms didn't deter kids from anything except establishing rules about what made a "cool" combo uniform-wise. Especially the girls.

Believe me, the girl would compete to try to wear the shortest, tightest shirt they could get away with without getting a demerit. Same for shorts and skirts. And pants? Believe me, every girl was searching for a pair of pants that would conform the the color (blue or khaki) and material (no denim) yet fit snugly in all the right places.

Certain "cuts" were also coveted. For example we had to have shirts with collars, but lots of girls managed to find a shirt with a collar that plunged - great way to show off some cleavage (if you had any!).

I think there was also competition among the guys to find the baggiest pants they could get away with.

Kids will find a way to impose their rules on anything - even if you think you've taken away the option!

Well your school was a lot different from mine!!! We have to buy the uniform from the school itself so it was all exactly the same! I hated it at the time, but realised later how good it was for me because most of my home clothes were hand me downs from my older sister and some of the other girls came from incredibly rich families.

I can see the argument if the school provides the uniforms. If the parents have to buy them then there will still be the same difference between those kids with a fresh, expensive set each year, and those that are wearing the ones that have been handed down three generations.

At my daughters school in Edinburgh, uniform was compulsory - I point blank refused to buy it(couldn't have afforded to if I wanted to as a total set approached about £200, and would be outgrown every year at least), but my mother, who is a uniform supporter, stepped in and bought them, against my advice. The clothes had to be bought from a particular supplier and were NOT of good quality and in no way merited the cost Six months later we had relocated again to Italy. Pointless waste of money and time. We didn't even get round to stitching the six inch patch of the school emblem (£15) onto the tatty nylonesque blazer (£50 - and these were the cheap options).

If uniforms created discipline, Italy would be one of the most disciplined countries in the world.

Even with uniforms provided from the school, the kids would just compete on accessories, be them clothes of school accessories (in primary schools here there is a huge competition for who has the cooles school bag or pen or journal!). On the other hand, if a school already has ZERO competition on clothes, like we used to have, there will be no competition in any case. We looked like a big bunch of punks with some geeks thrown in for balance of flavors.

not that this thread is by ANY means on topic... ...but I just thought I'd inform all of you.

We have decided to have our baby here. for many reasons, some mentioned here, most personal, but we are DEFINITLY only postponing our plans for a year. Get ready Italy...baby loporto is coming to town.

LoPorto - I think you'll be happy you decided this! It's such a stress to think that you are moving to a new culture, new language, new people, plus getting used to new body changes and plus a baby and differences in hospital procedures, etc! My husband kept saying to me that he was ready to go back to Italy at any moment, and we should just do it! I was like, no way, man, I'm having this baby here in the States! I didn't want to have to go through all of that in Italy just yet. And I speak Italiano fluently too! I'm fine with having another babe in Italy, but this first one, I want to have here, in my own country! So, good luck, and we will surely welcome baby LoPorto into the grand paese!

Cassi

I've never posted on a blog before, so hope I am doing it right. My husband and I are moving to Rome this summer, and are planning (hoping!) to be pregnant by then. I appreciate all the earlier posts regarding Pdis, registering a birth abroad with the consulate, etc.

Romana, I was particularly interested to see your recommendations for hospitals/clinics in Rome (San Camillo, FatebeneFratelli, Villa Mafalda). We will have private insurance (Aetna), which has already told us they will cover up to $4000 in pregnancy/birth costs. Do you (or anyone else) have any estimate as to if this will be sufficient, or if we will need to supplement this, by how much? Any other recs re: pregnancy in Rome would be great too. Thanks all!

You won't need private insurance if you get your PdiS and are a permanent resident of Italy. I think most of the hospitals listed here are public hospitals. Everything will be (more or less) free I think. Several of the posters said they preferred public hospitals in fact.

However, if you prefer the private route - or will not be a permanent resident and/or do not qualify for coverage under ASL (not sure what the rules are) then you will need to pay but I have no idea how much...Also - is the Aetna insurance from another country (the US?) or is it based in Italy? Most of the people I know with private insurance here get it from an Italian company like Assitalia. Not sure how Italian doctors and hospitals view foreign insurance...

Hi New To Rome,
Congratulations on your decision to move to Rome. I am sure you will enjoy it here! Just a note - one of the hospitals mentioned in your list (Fate Bene Fratelli) is indeed very nice, but is "semi-private". It can easily go over the $4000 limit you mention. This is one of the most popular hospitals in Rome and I have heard good things about it. We also considered having our sons there but due to its popularity, if it is overcrowded (and even if you have "reserved" ahead) you will be sent to other, larger public hospitals (e.g. San Camillo). This is why we opted for private in the end where I could have a private room, rooming-in, etc. My advice is to take a look at a few places, public and private, to make your decision.

Thanks for this advice. I think going to look at a few places is the best idea.

I need to confirm that we can use the public system, should we choose to. We are American, but will become residents of Italy, as we will be there more than three months and understand that is the only requirement. I’m not clear whether all residents are covered by the national system, or whether you need to be a citizen or have your employer pay into the system. I guess I'll contact my husband's employer.

Is it difficult to find an English speaking doctor at the public hospitals? Also, in relation to looking at places, can you just call a hospital and ask for a tour? Thank you!

All residents are covered. The right to sanitary assistance is written in our constitution for each and every citizen and resident.

I have been following this discussion with a view to helping me make a decision: I am 7 weeks pregnant and I am a bit worried about having baby in italy. My daughter (32 months) was born in England, I had a private room during delivery and after (it was an NHs Hospital) and I can not imagine anything less, also she never left my sight. The midwifes were amazing and the doctors too. My main concern is how do I organise it all? should I go to england a few months early just incase? should I go there regularly to be seen by the midwife? how does it all work? On the other hand how does it all work here? I have not seen a doctor yet as I must get a blood test to confirm pregnancy and I haven't gotten around to it yet(why isn't the urine test enough?) If any of you ladies could shine a light on this I would be grateful.
Thanks in advance all.
Ayan

quote:

Originally posted by ayan:
I have been following this discussion with a view to helping me make a decision: I am 7 weeks pregnant and I am a bit worried about having baby in italy. My daughter (32 months) was born in England, I had a private room during delivery and after (it was an NHs Hospital) and I can not imagine anything less, also she never left my sight. The midwifes were amazing and the doctors too. My main concern is how do I organise it all? should I go to england a few months early just incase? should I go there regularly to be seen by the midwife? how does it all work? On the other hand how does it all work here? I have not seen a doctor yet as I must get a blood test to confirm pregnancy and I haven't gotten around to it yet(why isn't the urine test enough?) If any of you ladies could shine a light on this I would be grateful.
Thanks in advance all.
Ayan

Hi I m English and have had two babies in Italy in the last four years and I think in retrospect if I had had a choice I would have had them in the UK as I didnt really have a fantastic time. The main thing is if you are still a uk resident you can do this, but if I had gone to the Uk i would have had to pay for most of the stuff including plain check ups as I am a resident here and have not lived in the uk for five years... My reasons for having the baby there is because my sister just had a baby there (nhs) and her experience was fantastic compared to mine. I had no control about the birth they dont even have a birth plan and my mum wasnt allowed in even though it wasnt an emergency or anything. I shared a room (which I quite liked actually) and they took all the babies to the nursery at midnight, which although I didnt like that, I did get some sleep! Here I had about a zillion blood tests and I hate blood tests, I had to go into the town centre to have some done and fainted after one so wasnt able to drive myself home!!! They make you have so many tests here (paranoia!!) and I am youngish and perfectly healthy so it was anoying! Also the doctor I had was paranoid about me gaining too much weight!!! I only gained 14 kilos with the first and 12 kilos for the second so that was ridiculous!! So I know I m rambling on but my over all experience of pregnancy and childbirth made me feel like a test mouse!

Verity's right, I totally agree. I had my baby here but probably should have gone home to the UK for the birth. It's very different here and you need to be quite tough to get what you want and that's very hard when you're in labour.
Oh and do you know in Pescara when they took my blood samples they didn't wear gloves

nads, don't panic! email me at rebelyael[at]hotmail[dot]com and we'll have a chat.

So how much is private health insurance anyway? And how much does it cover? I"m not so worried about the actual medical care in public hospitals but don't think I could cope with a less than caring /bureaucratic environment in such a situation. Maybe the private doctors are no better as doctors but at least you won't be subjected to feet in stirrups, other people in the room while you give birth, rude nurses and having your baby taken away from you! I think any woman in labour needs 100% support - and some of the things I"ve read here really scare me!

And how about things like birthing balls and water births? I guess this is all unheard of in the public hospitals?

You English gals are starting to scare me now! I wish I could have the option to hop over to the States from Italy to give birth, but that's totally out of the question! AGH! Do they really make you give birth with other patients in the room??! Is there any way I can demand to have my baby room in with me? (That's probably just my American "the customer is always right" approach that's speaking there, but I'd atleast like the option to room in if I want to!)

Catherine, I forgot where are you going to live in Italy? because really it all depends on that.
Here you would have to 'labour' on the communal ward but the pushing stage is done in the 'theatre'. Also, here, they do not allow babies on the ward after 11pm so if your baby is born later you don't get to have him/her until the morning. There's no point insisting because that's the way it's done, that's the way it's always been done, thousands of women here give birth like that, whay on earth would we know any better is their attitude.
I have no experience of other areas in Italy but Cristina and others tell me that it's not like this everywhere. So again it depends on your location.

quote:

Originally posted by rtpm:
Maybe the private doctors are no better as doctors but at least you won't be subjected to feet in stirrups, other people in the room while you give birth, rude nurses and having your baby taken away from you!

Haha RTPM this really made me chuckle. My doctor was a private doctor and he had me in them stirrups every time I visited him, every hour during the labour and HE insisted I get in them for the pushing stage despite me screaming at him that I wanted to squat (sorry if too graphic).

I'm pregnant and about to start my third trimester. My husband and I are moving to Padova in 3 days with our 1 1/2 year old boy. I tried to investigate hospitals and doctors (I would actually prefer a midwife) in the area before the move but no luck. Is anybody living there or know the area well enough to suggest a hospital/doctor?
I'm pretty hippie in my childbirth views and the picture I'm getting of Italian birthing is a little scary. I'm considering sneaking up to Switzerland to have this kid. Did I mention that my Italian is horrible?

quote:

Originally posted by Yael:

quote:

Originally posted by rtpm:
Maybe the private doctors are no better as doctors but at least you won't be subjected to feet in stirrups, other people in the room while you give birth, rude nurses and having your baby taken away from you!

Haha RTPM this really made me chuckle. My doctor was a private doctor and he had me in them stirrups every time I visited him, every hour during the labour and HE insisted I get in them for the pushing stage despite me screaming at him that I wanted to squat (sorry if too graphic).

Oh - so I guess they all have these "medieval" childbirth views both public and private.

It all depends on the hospital. My thoughts though, private doctors also work in the public so why pay for it. Private hospitals can be awful as can public. If you visit the hospitals available to you then you will see what they are like and can make a decision.

At the hospital in POggibonsi (SI), they have birthing balls, tubs, they let you squat, on hands and knees, etc. Whatever works for you.