My daughter is 5 years old and is now in the public scuola materna. I thought at her age the atmosphere would be more greared towards learning - beginner reading, number concepts, etc... But instead it just seems to be preschool/playing/games. Am I wrong about this? - since I don't speak the language perhaps I'm just not understanding yet.

I'm not complaining, but I'm just wondering how this works with the transition to first grade next year? I have heard that some first grades in Italy teach multiplication and division...how does that work if the kindergarteners still haven't been taught to read or add? In the states, kindergarten is separate from preschool because it is preparing the kids for first grade with learning to read, basic math, etc. Here the 5 year olds are still playing with the 3 year olds.

Just wondering about other people's experiences with this, and if anyone can explain the system to me a little better. I feel like I just don't really get it yet.

The last year of scuola materna (when they are 5) is normally when they start learning a few little things here and there. They have a practice book for learning things like the seasons, colors, some letters, etc. Very basic. When 1st grade states they then begin to learn. They start with one letter a day (or every 2 days) and they practice writing it in 4 different ways (print small, print capital, cursive small, cursive capital), they learn words that start with the letter and learn how it sounds. Many school teach the phonetic sound for a letter instead of calling it A B or C. The letter B for example, in Italian would sound like bee but they learn it as b (the sound the b makes). By Christmas they are wrioting and reading, slowly slowly. Math is something else entirely. At our school they have not learned multiplication or division yet (my eldest is in the 2nd grade) but they will. Instead they learn 9 million different ways to do 2 + 2 = 4. Frustrating as all get out for a math person like myself.

Don't worry, let your child enjoy the last year of complete and total fun. Next year it is homework (for you too, what joy . . .)

When I was a child, most children didn'tgo to preschool or kindergarden or whatever (it was almost 30 years ago), but most children already knew to read and write some. I think we wrote our first phrase on the first or second day ("La castagna sta nel riccio"). I mean we took a stroll in the school's garden, fond a "horse chestnut" grove and a few chstnuts on the ground, the teacher had us think about those and some child came up with the phrase, so she wrote it on the bard and we copied it on our notebooks. That was it. No single letter learning that I can remeber. notice that I started reading the first few words at 4 and writing at 5. The first time I brought a book home from the school, I read it in one afternoon.
I can't rember exactly how we came along with dealing witha dditions and subtractions, but I remeber that we worked a lot on the "insiemi". We were not thinking about numbers as abstractions, just thinking of groups of objects that we drew on the paper and surrounded with a line. I guess they were how we learned the concepts of addition and subtraction. i guess it because I am the absolute opposite of Cristina when it comes to numbers: I can't get the same result of a division twice in a row no matter how many times I try!

Yeah - but I'm sure there were some kids in your first grade, Alice, who did not learn to read at 4 or 5. I'm dyslexic, for eexample (but there were other non learning disabled kids in my class who also had problems) so did not learn to read properly until I was about 7 or 8. It was a huge struggle for me - and my teachers in first and second class were wonderful and patient. So it would have been very difficult for a child like me at an Italian school 30 yrs ago if everyone had just turned up at school already knowing how to read! I'm sure that there were other kids at your school whose parents did not teach them to read at age 4. Some actual teaching of reading must have gone on.

Maybe maybe English is just harder for kids to read and write since it has complicated spelling...

quote:

Maybe maybe English is just harder for kids to read and write since it has complicated spelling...

Please, allow me:

No, sorry. It's just that compared to Swedish, English spelling is a piece of cake with much less variables.

Anyway. I learned to read and write when I was 3-4 years old, which - here - was exceptional. My son who is 5 years old knows almost all the letters and numbers and can do some VERY simple adding and subtracting in his head, but he can still not read words or write words if we don't tell him exactly how to. He, and all the other 5-year-olds, are still in preschool (? Kindergarten? What's the difference??) along with younger children.
He, too, is pretty exceptional.

Most kids here don't recognize many letters and numbers before they start school, which they do at age 6 nowadays (it used to be at 7). The first year is a sort of preparation year for the "real" school. The real training in letters and numbers, reading and writing, starts in first grade, age 7.
Multiplication and division comes in third grade, when they are about 9 years old. English in fourth grade.

Still, when we graduate we are every bit as educated as our fellow earthlings, actually in the top layer.

I don't think there is any reason to worry, Ellen!

On the other hand, I am discalculic (though I learned it as a grown up). As a fellow dis-something, I can assure you that starting earlier does not do really much to address the problem. There was a girl in my class that was mildly dislexic, having huge problems telling a few letters apart (B and D, F and T and a couple others). She was behind, our teacher just put extra effort with her. But the confusion was not cured by revising these letters nearly each day, just like wearing a watchon my right arm does not help me in telling my right hand from the left, unless I concentrate on the watch.
By the way, my parents didn't teach me anything. I learned to read by myself, and they barely gave me materials to help me learn how to write and let my wild weed self grow.

Thanks for all the input. Sounds like it's the same everywhere - everyone learns at their own pace. I'm not worried about my daughter's education - she's starting to read very simple words at home, and she has a good math sense, so she'll be fine... I was just wondering about the system, and at what point they are taught what. I was under the impression that more would be expected of them in first grade, and I didn't understand how most kids would be ready for that. Anyway - learning Italian is our main goal this year, and that will probably happen on the playground!

Hi Ellen. My son Dante went to Kindergarten in New York. His daily schedule was varied with art, music, library, computer and physical education. By the end of the year he was reading and writing.

He entered first grade in Italy last month. I spent the first day with him and noticed the wide range of abilities of the 40 children in the room (one teacher was out sick). The lesson of the day was "Io sono _______" and the child had to copy this, add their own name and draw a picture. One boy could write his first and last names, a few drew beautiful, detailed pictures. But I must say I was surprised by how many seemed completely lost. Many couldn't write their names, a few struggled to even hold a pencil. Believe me, this little activity took hours!!

Now that we are well into the 2nd month, the emphasis has been on reading and writing (only one math lesson so far, and two English lessons). Everyday they write the name of our town and the date on the top of the paper, and also the day of the week. Then they copy a sentence (or simple poem) from the board which contains examples of what is being taught that day. They usually have a chance to illustrate it (my son's favorite part!). They write everything 3 ways (all caps, all lower case, and all lower case cursive). There are some differences (the capital I looks like the lower case l, for example) and the cursive alphabet is more ornate than what I'm used to. The emphais is on precision and neatness.

So far they have learned all the vowel sounds and have begun to combine them with the letter M to make common syllables (MA, ME, MI, etc.)which they form into words (MOTO). Homework consists of a lot of "read 10 times" and writing words the "3 ways".

Yes, I'd say learning to read and write in Italian is EASIER than in English. In USA the teachers spend years teaching the word families, giving spelling tests, teaching sight words, having reading groups, etc. as there are so many complications. Italian as a phonetic language is much easier. I have heard that by Christmas vacation the kids will all (?) be reading.

The math so far has only been one lesson, on the number one. He wrote a page of "1" 's (which is different from the one you're used to..it has a sloping line going up to the vertical...but NO foot on the bottom). Then drawing pictures...1 foot, 1 bird, 1 hand etc. That's it so far. I'm hoping that after Christmas math gets more emphasis (maybe they'll be up to 10 by then?) and start doing some addition in January. We bought a math manipulatives kit, so I'm assuming he'll use it at some point!

I'm not worried. My son is learning Italian, learning Italian penmanship (which he loves to do) and when all is said and done, Italian graduates seem well educated. But, yes, I'd say that 1st grade here is similar to Kindergarten in the States, at least the first half of the year (but with less time for play). Hope this is helpful!

Diane - thanks for such a detailed account! Sounds like Dante is doing well and having a great Italian school experience.

When my older daughter (Jane) was in U.S. kindergarten we had the same experience as you had with Dante - library, gym, spanish, computer, ... and she was learning to read, doing simple math, had homework a few nights a week, etc. As expected, some kids were also on different levels - some kids read easily, some struggled with every small word. Whatever level Alice (our current kindergartener) ends up at this June - i'm sure she will fit in on some level next year.

Jane is doing great in second grade - but I wish she had had penmanship taught to her like Dante is - she only printed in the US, and now it's very hard for her to learn cursive at the same time as learning Italian. At first she was just copying stuff from the board and not even knowing what the letters were, much less the words! At least she has passed that point and pretty much knows what she's writing, but she still needs to work on neatness which is hard to tackle when they are not actively working on penmanship at school. I also learned a different version of cursive than they use here, so when I try to work with her on it she keeps saying "no mom, they do it this way..." I'm also surprised that she has barely any homework. Only on the weekends - one sheet of math, or write a short poem, ...

OK, I'm rambling on, but it's been quite an experience and it's good to hear how it's going for others like yourself - Anyway, glad Dante is doing well...