my lazy eyed psycho italian friend has told me toms can be planted next week, i am in falerone, please discuss......

I planted some seeds on Sunday. I also planted some last year and was too lazy to split them so they died . Must split them this time as I really want tomato plants this year.

Two years ago we bought some tomato plants and they were fabulous. They kept us in tomatoes all summer long. So I'm trying again from seeds this year, but if they don't grow I'm going to buy some plants.

Are you talking seeds or plants?

I think it's a little late for seeds...unless you don't mind waiting for ripe tomatoes a little longer. Normally the seeds should be started indoors, in February. For now I'd just go with plants...after all, who wants to wait for fresh tomatoes!?!

Oh...Say it isn't so Oh well, looks like I'll have to buy plants and maybe get to eat the ones grown from seeds late on.

You have to allow 6-8 weeks from starting the seeds to transplant into the ground. Start some seeds now for a late crop and, in the meantime, buy some plants. I started my seeds in February. The seedlings are going into the ground as soon as the overnight temperatures get up a bit.

i was thinking plnts, i've tried seeds before and they just do a kate moss, get leggy and fall over, i presume if they are at the market they can be planted, is that right? do i have to cover at night just when frost is due or every night, because i like toms but not that much!!

Growing from seed, the seedlings need warmth and, more importantly, light. Lots and lots of light. Preferably sunlight, even if inside in a sunny window. Tall, leggy, pale - Kate Moss, indeed - seedlings have usually lacked light.

Tom plants at the market are ready to plant out. Whether it's time to plant out is a different matter. For optimum growing performance, toms like at least high teens during the day, and minimum low teens overnight. Frost will wipe them out. You can cover to protect against frost, but the point is that low overnight temps inhibit growth.

I've experimented a lot with planting times over the years. Reasonable day temps and low overnight temps - below about 12C - result in slow development to the extent that they won't produce ripe fruit any quicker than seedlings planted out a month later in better all-round temp conditions.

Right on that! I've done both inside and outside planting, been burned both ways (not to mention frost-burned plantlings).

What I found best was to just be patient and get good robust plantlings at an open market and put them out in May, when you can be fairly confident there will be no more frost (to check this, go on Burpee's site and get an idea of last frosts in various latitudes: they tend to be pretty accurate). In my experience, these do the best, yield early and do amazingly well.

When buying, check the diameter and sturdiness of the main stalk: if it's more Rosie O'D than Kate Moss, go for it!

cheers for all that, so am i right in thinking i go out and acquire only rosies's, then i keep them in the pots inside until 1st may and then plant them outside, in the meantime have them outside in the day and at night bring them either indoors or in the garage. most definately steer clear of anything resembling kate moss as these are clearly defective.

Absoloodle-toodle: acclimating them to fresh air during the day will prepare them for all-night when it's ok.

It's called hardening off. The odds are that the seedlings at the market have lived their lives in the protection of greenhouses. Leave them out all day, then all day and till after dark, then, eventually, all day and overnight.

You can't really plant by dates. It's a matter of temperatures. The soil doesn't need to be anything special, either. Toms are sturdy buggers, a lot sturdier than people think. If the soil is utter garbage, dig in some terriccio (orto-type) down to about three feet.

When you plant, remove all but the top couple of sets of leaves, even if means taking off branches. Plant the seedling deeply, all the way down, so that only the top sets of leaves are visible. That part of the seedling which is underground will turn into root structure.

Fertilise a couple of weeks after planting with either a specialist tomato food or a fertiliser with more P and K than N. Nitrogen is the sworn enemy of tomato growers - lots of leaves, little fruit. If the soil is at all reasonable, you shouldn't need to fertilise again till mid-season. Despite reports to the contrary, toms aren't big feeders. Water when the plants need it - dig a finger into the soil to test for moisture - not by habit. More toms are killed by over-fertilising and over-watering than by neglect.

And find your sunniest spot. Toms need at least 8 hours of full sunlight a day for maximum production. They will produce with less, but the production will be correspondingly less.

thats excellent info, i have grown them before in the uk and canada with lots of leaves and little green fruit, this should help loads, just one last thing, when i get them from the market, shall i replant them into pots, 6 inches, and then plant them into the prepared bed from that pot??

This may be an old wives' tale, but the lore where I was in Tuscany was never water directly onto the plant: water the soil but don't get the leaves wet. The idea was that the sun would act on the water like a magnifying glass and burn the leaves. I could never square this with nightly dew creating basically the same effect, but locals swore by it. My husband still does and he hasn't lost a tomato plant in years.

But I do believe it's best to water in the early evening in summer and not in the heat of day.

We never water the plant directly either, just the ground around it.

And, by the way, don't forget to remove the "suckers" or side shoots that develop in the parts between the leaves and the main stem. If left alone, they will produce more leaves and stems. There are a couple of reasons for removing them, first to make the main stem stronger, and second because they will keep making more and more stems, using up the plants resources for leaves instead of fruit.

The main reason for not watering the foliage is fungal problems. Wet leaves, particularly overnight, is a recipe for disease.

A couple of tips for reducing fungal problems (you can only reduce them, you can't really eliminate them): allow as much space as you can - at least three feet - between plants to allow maximum air circulation; and remove the lower branches to leave a gap of at least 18 inches, preferably two feet, between the ground and lowest foliage. Fungal spores will accumulate on the ground under the plant. Watering under the plant can splash the spores back up onto the foliage. Hence the gap, a safety margin.

dawnbee, leave the seedlings in their containers. They will already have been potted up, which will have stimulated the root systems, and they'll be happier now if they're ever so slightly snug in the containers.

MB, the removal of the laterals is an interesting point. It was always lore to remove them. A couple of plant nurseries in Australia did some testing. They found that, for the most part, removing them made little difference to production. In fact, the only real variation was that leaving the laterals in place sometimes increased production, presumably on the basis of the extra leaf surface assisting photosynthesis. I tend to pinch them out only in order to assist air circulation as an anti-fungal measure.

quote:

Originally posted by Graeme:
MB, the removal of the laterals is an interesting point. It was always lore to remove them. A couple of plant nurseries in Australia did some testing. They found that, for the most part, removing them made little difference to production. In fact, the only real variation was that leaving the laterals in place sometimes increased production, presumably on the basis of the extra leaf surface assisting photosynthesis. I tend to pinch them out only in order to assist air circulation as an anti-fungal measure.

That's interesting - we've always removed them, supposedly for the reasons I mentioned - except when growing the San Marzano ground-hugging variety. Those we just leave to do their own thing and have found that they produce quite a bit. Something to think about....

A lot of tomato-growing lore is being questioned by modern analysis. For example, Blossom End Rot used to be blamed on insufficient calcium in the soil. Add calcium was the suggested solution. Now it's been discovered that it's the plant's system's inability to distribute the calcium that's the problem, the result of the plant being stressed in some way - uneven watering patterns, heat wave temps, even high winds buffeting the plant.

On top of which, there's the odd fact that the plum varieties are more prone to BER than the others. A couple of years ago I had a San Marzano right beside a beefsteak. Same soil, same watering, same everything. The San Marzano was smashed by BER, the beefsteak was untouched.

Tomatoes are remarkable things.

Yes they certainly are. Two years ago we decided to take a chance on the San Marzano variety that supposedly doesn't need to be staked. I have to admit we were a little skeptical, but we just planted them and stood back. The only thing we did was water them once in a while. Despite all of the lore about how they would rot if they weren't staked, if they touched the ground, etc. we had a crop of tomatoes like you wouldn't believe. Last year, we thought that if we staked them, they would produce even more, but we ended up with less tomatoes. So, you can bet that this year we're just going to plant them and let them "do their thing".

You can let any variety sprawl if you have the growing space. I've got a tomato-growing friend in the States who never stakes. The only risks you run are critters helping themselves to the fruit - if such critters are around - and rot problems if the ground under the fruit gets too wet and there's no air circulation. My friend lays down some straw or similar to guard against that.

As we appear to have a tomato expert here can I ask for suitable local varieties for growing in pots on my balcony? In the North but South-facing and around 550m?
Thanks!:-)

I'll probably go to the market for plants but it would be good to know if there is a choice.

Someone at your local market, nursery or agricultural store would be your best bet. Tell them what type of tomatoes you want...for salads or for sugo, and I'm sure you'll get all the help and advice you need.

You can grow virtually any tomato variety in a container providing the size of the container matches the variety's needs. The smaller, determinate varieties - usually called something like patio tomatoes - will cope with a 10 litre container. I haven't seen many here. The larger, indeterminate varieties - which are mainly what you'll find here - need something more like a 40 litre container to maximise production. They will grow in smaller containers, but production will be correspondingly reduced.

It does depend what you want the toms for. If for salads, or slicing on toast, you'd avoid the plum/egg varieties like Roma or San Marzano. They're better in sauces. Otherwise any of the beefsteaks (the big meaty ones) or the rounds or oblates (like a round one but slightly flattened) will do the job. If you fancy a green-ish tom in a salad, just harvest early.

As Barb says, ask around. Failing that, most seedlings come with a photo of the tomato on the label which will give you an idea of what to expect.

Thanks for that. I'd want a salad tom as I'm not set up to make enough sugo/passata. I've used containers/growbags in the UK but not as big as 40 litres, and my balcony isn't _that_ big! Might still give it a try with one or two plants, they're pretty good value in the market.

i went to monteponne market sta mattina and i asked for san marzano, he gave me 4 plants and then gave me a freebie, which he said was a basso one, i didn't tell him wanted all basso, i should have, he also sold me a melon sage, a basil, a couple of geranium, he gave me 6 gratis rocket, which i used for our lunch today.